Nitrite Spikes

[Ishkabod]

I've been reading up on the Nitrogen cycle so i know the basics and some not so basic stuff but little to no info on when and when not to preform a water change. I just did a 50% Water change yesterday and allready my levils are at 1.5ppm They were at 5ppm yesterday and that is as high as my test kit goes. I guess i'm in the secong stage of the nitrogen cycle but it's takeing allot longer than i figured. Not only is the Nitrites spikeing but the ammonia is staying at above .2ppm and increases with the nitrite amounts. It was at .5 yesterday.

Here is a summary

Nitrite 30%WC Wed1.0 Thurs5.0 50%WC Fri1.5

Ammonia WC Wed0.2 Thurs0.5 WC Fri0.25

I'm not sure what i should be doing now that water changes seem to be the only thing keeping the numbers down. should i let it spike??

Kuchi my koi tends to dart around crazily at anything above 1.0 of nitrite, I've had this tank for a couple of weeks but the filter for clocer to three. Any more info would be helpful

Thanks ever so much everyone

Lisa

[darkangel]

Just keep up with the daily water changes until the bacteria can colonize in the filter.

[geleen]

I've been reading up on the Nitrogen cycle so i know the basics and some not so basic stuff but little to no info on when and when not to preform a water change. I just did a 50% Water change yesterday and allready my levils are at 1.5ppm They were at 5ppm yesterday and that is as high as my test kit goes. I guess i'm in the secong stage of the nitrogen cycle but it's takeing allot longer than i figured. Not only is the Nitrites spikeing but the ammonia is staying at above .2ppm and increases with the nitrite amounts. It was at .5 yesterday.

Here is a summary

Nitrite 30%WC Wed1.0 Thurs5.0 50%WC Fri1.5

Ammonia WC Wed0.2 Thurs0.5 WC Fri0.25

I'm not sure what i should be doing now that water changes seem to be the only thing keeping the numbers down. should i let it spike??

Kuchi my koi tends to dart around crazily at anything above 1.0 of nitrite, I've had this tank for a couple of weeks but the filter for clocer to three. Any more info would be helpful

Thanks ever so much everyone

Lisa

The nitrite cycle can take a while longer and will eventually get there.

Your fish is in a lot of trouble.

If you can not move the fish out of there you could do this.

1./ pick up some seachem stability to help the tank cycle

2./ pick up some bacteria from me to help the filter.

3./ add 5x the dosage of Prime with every water change it will neutralize the nitrite help your fish but will hurt the cycling.

4./ add salt, google salt nitrite koi for dosages involving Koi

J.

[Ishkabod]

I've been reading up on the Nitrogen cycle so i know the basics and some not so basic stuff but little to no info on when and when not to preform a water change. I just did a 50% Water change yesterday and allready my levils are at 1.5ppm They were at 5ppm yesterday and that is as high as my test kit goes. I guess i'm in the secong stage of the nitrogen cycle but it's takeing allot longer than i figured. Not only is the Nitrites spikeing but the ammonia is staying at above .2ppm and increases with the nitrite amounts. It was at .5 yesterday.

Here is a summary

Nitrite 30%WC Wed1.0 Thurs5.0 50%WC Fri1.5

Ammonia WC Wed0.2 Thurs0.5 WC Fri0.25

I'm not sure what i should be doing now that water changes seem to be the only thing keeping the numbers down. should i let it spike??

Kuchi my koi tends to dart around crazily at anything above 1.0 of nitrite, I've had this tank for a couple of weeks but the filter for clocer to three. Any more info would be helpful

Thanks ever so much everyone

Lisa

The nitrite cycle can take a while longer and will eventually get there.

Your fish is in a lot of trouble.

If you can not move the fish out of there you could do this.

1./ pick up some seachem stability to help the tank cycle

2./ pick up some bacteria from me to help the filter.

3./ add 5x the dosage of Prime with every water change it will neutralize the nitrite help your fish but will hurt the cycling.

4./ add salt, google salt nitrite koi for dosages involving Koi

J.

THanks for the advice and the offer. I don't have a car anymore to pickup the bacteria. I do have lots of time to do water changes but i'm not sure at what levil the water needs to be changed. I'm trying to keep it below 1ppm. should i do daily water changes.

I have prime but i'm out of cash right now to buy anything else for the tank. I'm going to try salt. i've read a few articles on the topic and it seems to me that a table spoon or two for my thirty gallon tank is very conservative by most so i'm adding two then maybe another one tomorrow. we'll see. I Have prime so i'll definately add some more than i have already. Like you said it might make the cycle longer but for my Kuchi's health it's worth the extra hassle. Also aparently salt water makes the bacteria multiply faster so i hope the little amount i'm adding might speed up my cycle a bit. I'll be buying stability asap and possibly another filter to add to the one i allready have for better filtration for my Koi.

I've done another WC of 40% and added the recommended ammount of prime to the new water plus about three to four ml more to the tank. After the water change i tested again about 2 hours later and the ammonia is about 0.15 and nitrite at 0.5ppm.

thanks a bunch

Lisa

[RD.]

Some very good advice from geleen.

Lisa - just a FYI ...... 1 teaspoon of salt is enough to treat approx 300 gallons, to reduce nitrite toxicity.

Also, IME Seachem Stability does in fact work, although in my situation I needed to use 2-3 times the recommended dose.

Even still, I had a complete cycle in a 54 gallon in just over 1 week, with 3 adult Lionhead goldfish in the tank. I lost my bio filter bacteria due to medication for lice eggs that I was using, and I had no empty tanks to place the goldfish in.

All 3 fish survived the ordeal unscathed.

Keep in mind that when you are testing for ammonia, your test kit will be giving you a false reading, as the Prime will safely bind any/all "free" ammonia. (the harmful stuff) Your test kit is only testing for "total" ammonia. You can read more on that in the following link: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

IMO reduce your water changes to 15-20% (daily if you feel the need) and if/when you get your hands on some Stability let the water changes go 3 days or so at a time until things balance out. 40% daily water changes will simply prolong the cycle.

HTH

[FrogFan23]

Also, IME Seachem Stability does in fact work, although in my situation I needed to use 2-3 times the recommended dose.

I agree. I've found Stability to be ineffective at the standard recommended dosages. However, when I overdosed as RD. did, it was much more effective.

Keep in mind that when you are testing for ammonia, your test kit will be giving you a false reading, as the Prime will safely bind any/all "free" ammonia. (the harmful stuff) Your test kit is only testing for "total" ammonia. You can read more on that in the following link: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

There are very few ammonia test kits that can distinguish the difference between toxic and non-toxic ammonia, thus the "false" reading RD. mentioned. Prime will bind (i.e., convert to non-toxic) approx. 0.8 ppm of ammonia per standard dose. Kordon's Amquel+ will also do the job (~ 1.2 ppm ammonia & 2 ppm nitrite per dose) but requires heavy aeration. This would probably be a good idea when overdosing with Prime, as well.

I've found that, in the short term, as long as you try to keep the ammonia and nitrite under 1 ppm, most fish can weather through the cycling process. Koi are very hardy fish. I never had a problem with my two Koi during the cycling process, but they are in approx. 145 gallons of water. Hopefully, your 30 gallon tank is only intended for short-term use, as Koi can reach 24 - 36 inches in length.

Also aparently salt water makes the bacteria multiply faster so i hope the little amount i'm adding might speed up my cycle a bit.

There are many factors that affect the development of the nitrifying bacteria, but I do not think that salt contributes in that manner. To my knowledge, salt is only used to temporarily counteract the effect that nitrite has on the gills - by improving the fish's oxygen uptake. Water temperature does speed up the cycling process, but the higher temperatures needed to do so would not be ideal for your Koi, given that it is a cold-water fish. Increased aeration - to improve oxygen saturation in the water - will also help speed up bacterial development.

[Ishkabod]

Some very good advice from geleen.

Lisa - just a FYI ...... 1 teaspoon of salt is enough to treat approx 300 gallons, to reduce nitrite toxicity.

Also, IME Seachem Stability does in fact work, although in my situation I needed to use 2-3 times the recommended dose.

Even still, I had a complete cycle in a 54 gallon in just over 1 week, with 3 adult Lionhead goldfish in the tank. I lost my bio filter bacteria due to medication for lice eggs that I was using, and I had no empty tanks to place the goldfish in.

All 3 fish survived the ordeal unscathed.

Keep in mind that when you are testing for ammonia, your test kit will be giving you a false reading, as the Prime will safely bind any/all "free" ammonia. (the harmful stuff) Your test kit is only testing for "total" ammonia. You can read more on that in the following link: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

IMO reduce your water changes to 15-20% (daily if you feel the need) and if/when you get your hands on some Stability let the water changes go 3 days or so at a time until things balance out. 40% daily water changes will simply prolong the cycle.

HTH

I should be able to buy some seachem this weekend if my 15 gallon tank is sold and picked up. If not i'll have to bear through the checical water change nightmare. I usually keep my WC at about 10% but with levils that high i wanted to be safe. I guess i don't need any more salt and i added what i did before the EC so the ammount shouldn't be too much anymore.

What i really need to know now is at what level should i consider WAAYY to high and then prreform a water change. Please excuse my spelling because i'm qriteing this nearly blind.

Thanks

Lisa

[FrogFan23]

What i really need to know now is at what level should i consider WAAYY to high and then prreform a water change.

When I faced this problem with a quarantine tank for one of my frogs, the advice I got was:

Ammonia (toxic) < .25 ppm

Nitrite < 1 ppm

Nitrate < 20 ppm

These were the targets they aimed for with fish. They did have much experience with aquatic frogs.

Edited May 24, 2008 by FrogFan23

[Ishkabod]

Thanks so much that's exactly what i needed to know.

Thanks so much to everyone who offered advice. everyone of you gave me some info that will help. Thanks once again. I hope to help someone in future when i know more too.

Thanks once again

Lisa :w00t: :D :thumbs: :bow: :bow:

[Ishkabod]

Okay after the last few days i've finally figured some things out.

1. i need to do 10-15% Water changes evert 12 hours or so to keep the levils below 1ppm

2. I only need waayyy less than 1 TEAspoon of salt to keep the nitrite from being too toxic.

3. Kuxhi jumped out of the tank while i was watching so i must keep it coverd.

4. People here are sooooooo wonderfuly helpful THANKS

5 1ml of prime added to every bucket of new water is good enough.

6. Buy Stability

7. Ammonia (toxic) < .25 ppm

Nitrite < 1 ppm

Nitrate < 20 ppm

I know there is more info i learned but this is what i've used in the last couple days. Thanks everyone so much once again Please let me know if the water changes are too much for a daily change and what might be suggested to keep the levils down.

THanks so much

Lisa

[RD.]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but another way to help reduce ammonia levels is by reducing the amount & frequency that you feed. Most healthy fish can go a couple of weeks or more with no food, so only feeding a small amount every 2-3 days would also help keep your parameters within a safe level.

[Ishkabod]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but another way to help reduce ammonia levels is by reducing the amount & frequency that you feed. Most healthy fish can go a couple of weeks or more with no food, so only feeding a small amount every 2-3 days would also help keep your parameters within a safe level..

Thanks so much for the tip. I knew that less food waste meant less ammonia but i didn't consider the option of food reduction to get my levils down. I'll leave not feeding him daily as a last resort but i think i'll reduce the number of times i feed him down to once per day until i can get to the store to buy some seachem stability and pure ammonia (to use in my other tank with a ten gallon filter to establish a bacteria colony in it fast.) Someone mentioned to me that the use of Prime can cause missreadings on my ammonia levils. Considering the fact that it absolutely refuses to read below .20 and has stayed there for a few days straight leads me to believe it probably is true.

Thanks once again i hope reduceing feedings will allow me to reduce the amount of water change

Thanks sooo much

Lisa

P.S. please excuse my spelling. I cant see the words very well and so i haven't proofread as i've gone along except to see that the letters show up as i type

It hurts to squint. :boxed:

[FrogFan23]

I'll leave not feeding him daily as a last resort but i think i'll reduce the number of times i feed him down to once per day until i can get to the store to buy some seachem stability and pure ammonia (to use in my other tank with a ten gallon filter to establish a bacteria colony in it fast.)

How often & how much you feed your Koi is dependent on water temperature. Hikari has a lot of information on keeping Koi. You can look at it through this link: Feeding your coldwater fish. Koi do not have stomachs, so it is important that they get food at least once a day. Obviously, limiting your feedings as proposed during the cycling process is a good idea and it will reduce your water changes.

(FYI: At a room temperature of 18 C, I am feeding my Koi once a day in the morning. Koi do not need a heater.)

Someone mentioned to me that the use of Prime can cause missreadings on my ammonia levils. Considering the fact that it absolutely refuses to read below .20 and has stayed there for a few days straight leads me to believe it probably is true.

I suspect that he/she was probably thinking of the test kit's inability to detect the difference between toxic and non-toxic ammonia. I have been using Prime for years and I have never had inaccurate readings. I just cannot determine how much of the ammonia is non-toxic with my API test kit. If you are testing after water changes, you will detect the residual non-toxic ammonia created when Prime declorinates the water, which can range from from 0.25 to 0.5 ppm. This might also explain your result.

[RD.]

Koi do not have stomachs, so it is important that they get food at least once a day.

While Koi do not have true stomachs, they do have an expanding sack that receives the food.

And while under ideal conditions and higher water temps it's a good idea that they be fed on a daily basis, I think at the moment it is far more important that the ammonia & nitrite levels be kept in check. Carp/Koi/Goldfish do not need to be fed every day, no matter what the tank temp is, and in this particular situation IMO it is far more important to reduce the toxins in this tank, than to worry about the fish starving to death. Both young & adult Koi are shipped overseas & go without food for several days, or longer, with no loss due to starvation.

As per the link that you just provided;

For new environments, please reduce the feeding amount until your filtration system has completely cycled and developed adequate bacteria levels.

If something unusual happens (a sudden water temperature change, unstable water quality or illness) you should stop feeding completely or reduce the amount fed until the condition is corrected.

I suspect that he/she was probably thinking of the test kit's inability to detect the difference between toxic and non-toxic ammonia.

That was me, and that would be correct. A simple test/monitor for 'free' ammonia can be purchased for approx $10.

Seachem Ammonia Alert:

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pa...moniaAlert.html

Edited May 25, 2008 by RD.

[Ishkabod]

WOW This info is wonderfull and i think that the declorination of my water change water is what is causeing the reading. I cannot find another explaination other than that my test kit is faulty. I would love to buy the seachem test kit you mentioned Neil i haven't seen one at any of the fish stores i've visited so far but i'll keep a lookout and Frogfan Thanks so much for the link and the info i'm sure it'll be immensely helpfull based on the quotes neil found

I'm very gratefull for everyone's help.

My room temp is at about 21 which is what my tank is. It's at the upper levil that i've read koi like and at that temp i think once a day and a bit of a surface gravel poop and food netting will reduce the amount of ammonia introduced into the system.

I'm not sure why but when i do a small ten to fifteen percent water change the ammount of nitrite is reduced by half. any ideas on why? I've been keeping a detailed record of water changes. ammonia and nitrite levels, any additives like prime and how much put in the tank or new water and Kuchis' behavior/energy levels

thanks everyone once again

Lisa :bow: :thumbs: :thumbs: :well: