My first planted tank

[Linsay]

I've been preparing and looking forward to this for a long time. My first planted tank.

It's a 45g with Eheim 2215 canister and Red Sea CO2 (don't know [CO2] yet, I'm at about 1 bubble per second right now though). Temp @ 80. Powder ferts under the sand and caps in the sand next to the root systems of the bigger plants. Lighting will be T5HO 2x54W. I have the lights, but my husband isn't finished the canopy yet, so I'm making do for today. I'll be putting calvus (black and white?) , gold comps, zebra loach, and blue rams in it eventually.

Q#1 - Should I put the blue rams in now (there are 3 of them) to keep the ammonia going? I've read that the plants will suck up alot of the ammonia and nitrite if/when there's a spike. I'm using a filter that has been running in a heavily stocked tank for about a week and I've used the sand from the heavily stocked tank (cichlids). I think the tank will cycle fairly quickly, but my calvus are my babies and they're used to pristine water (0 NH3, 0 NO2, 5 NO3) (30-50% W/C weekly).

Q#2 - With the fertilizers I have (Ocean Nutrition 'Giovanni's Starter' and 'Giovanni's Fertil Caps'), do I need to add fertilizers to the water too? also,I'm going to pick up some trace ferts soon too, what do you recomend?

Q#3 - What's the best way to keep the pH up (for the calvus) when adding CO2? I think I read somewhere that baking soda works, is this true?

BTW: when doing some research I found this article that was very helpful (It's on fish ponds in the southern US, but I found the basic info very helpful. It's on the relationships between pH, CO2, alkalinity, and hardness). http://www.govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2003/725/7250100 (click on the link on the top right corner named 'abstract', then on 'full text' - again in the top right corner)

Here's some pictures :thumbs:

Edited August 4, 2008 by Linsay

[BlackMumba]

I can't answer any of your questions, but it looks like a very nice start to a beautiful tank :thumbs:

[Guest FLIP]

Blue rams are fragile fish and wouldn't last last long if they're beng used to cycle a tank, they'd just die.

[Blue Ram]

Your rams will not survive in anything but pristine water conditions. I would not put them in for several weeks until the tank is more established and you have no ammonia or nitrite readings. You need to determine what you want to keep because rams & calvus come from very different water conditions. The two breeds may be OK with straight Calgary water but rams prefer softer water but will do OK in Calgary water - the calvus I suspect prefer harder water. Have you done any research online respecting the compatibility of these two fish?? Rams should only be with very peaceful species.

[Linsay]

Your rams will not survive in anything but pristine water conditions. I would not put them in for several weeks until the tank is more established and you have no ammonia or nitrite readings. You need to determine what you want to keep because rams & calvus come from very different water conditions. The two breeds may be OK with straight Calgary water but rams prefer softer water but will do OK in Calgary water - the calvus I suspect prefer harder water. Have you done any research online respecting the compatibility of these two fish?? Rams should only be with very peaceful species.

I HAVE done research on the calvus, lots of it actually...and admittedly the rams were more of an impulse buy. The pH is at 8.0 - just standard Calgary water. The calvus and the blue rams are doing perfectly fine together. I realize this grouping might not be long term, as the calvus will get much bigger than the rams, but the calvus grow VERY slowly and should continue to be fine with the rams for some time. Calvus are very peaceful - in fact, in my tank the rams are more boisterous than the calvus, not at all aggressive, just that when the food is out they're THERE. I did find out that the blue rams do better in softer water and are actually built for a completely different part of the world than calvus, but hey, it's working for me. They're eating and playing and doing just fine. Thank you for your input. I've always wanted to give fishless cylcing a try, so maybe I'll do that.

[Linsay]

I can't answer any of your questions, but it looks like a very nice start to a beautiful tank :thumbs:

Thank you. I'm really excited to see how it turns out. :rofl:

[jvision]

If you want to skip the cycle on a planted tank, you need A LOT more plants - fast growing ones. If you can find some stem plants (cheap from hobbyists is the best way to go), plant your tank as full as you can. That way, you can add the fish you want from the get-go.

I know this method isn't the convensional way of 'cycling' but the only way you can be sure that there won't be an ammonia/nitrite spike in a planted tank, you have to have WAY MORE plant biomass than fish. I've done this at least a dozen times over the last 5 years, and have had 0 losses during the 'cycle' period.

[firestorm]

Rams will probably not do well long term in a pH of 8.0. They might be fine now, but it can actually affect them long term with health. I have tried the rams in calgary water too with great unsuccess. I know calvus are peaceful, but not so much as conspecifics. My largest calvus chases the other 2 around all the time. They will do absolutely great in our water. I know that baking soda is required in the yeast system for softer water, but I forget what is was specifically used for since I don't use it in my canisters. IMHO I would not keep the rams and calvus together long term, and keeping GBR in softer water will drastically change your success with them. Plants tend to do better with softer water as well. I have some wysteria that you can have for free, it is very fast growing.

[Linsay]

If you want to skip the cycle on a planted tank, you need A LOT more plants - fast growing ones. If you can find some stem plants (cheap from hobbyists is the best way to go), plant your tank as full as you can. That way, you can add the fish you want from the get-go.

I know this method isn't the convensional way of 'cycling' but the only way you can be sure that there won't be an ammonia/nitrite spike in a planted tank, you have to have WAY MORE plant biomass than fish. I've done this at least a dozen times over the last 5 years, and have had 0 losses during the 'cycle' period.

:bow: Thank you!...this is what I wanted to know. How much is "WAY MORE"? 2x, 3x, 10x as much as I have?

Also, I think I have decided to keep the calvus and gold comps out of the planted tank. I think I'll do blue rams, zebra loach, and Apistogramma agassizii. cool? I have 3 rams (about 1") and 9 zebra loach (about 1 1/2"). I don't have the Apisto's yet. I'm thinking about getting 3-ish.

:shifty: Anyone in Calgary have some free/cheap plants and or Apisto's?

[Linsay]

I have some wysteria that you can have for free, it is very fast growing.

Super. I already have some of your wysteria actually - I'm Kraken's wife :ph43r: They're in the bottom photo.

But if I need to have a bunch more plants to make this work then I would love some more if you're willing to part with it.

Thank you

[jvision]

In order to skip the cycling process, you need to fill your tank about 90% with plants (that's 90% of the footprint) - preferably plants that grow quickly. Here's a quick list of plants you should be able to find for cheap/free, as those of us who have them generally have to throw a bunch out each week b/c they grow so quickly:

Hygrophilla spp.

Limnophila sessiflora

Rotala indica, rotundafolia, macranda

Pennywort

Most sword plants grow quickly

Valisneria spp.

Sagiteria spp.

Good floating plants are:

Giant Duckweed (Lima major) - avoid normal duckweed if you can b/c it's almost impossible to get rid of

Frogbit

Salvinia spp

There are others, like many of the plants you already have. The key is to get that tank filled with plants, so that the plants take up more ammonia/nitrite than the fish can produce. Right now, there aren't enough to do much - you'll still need to cycle your tank.

BTW, I put the groups of plants in what I've found to be the most important order - you want as many stem plants as you can get, then go with roset plants... I use floating plants as a last resort because - even tho they soak up a lot of nutrients - the also block the light that needs to get to the plants you get to see thru the aquarium.

And, this is by no means a comprehensive list! There are hundreds of plants out there that will do the job... just get as many as you can.

Edited August 6, 2008 by jvision

[NatureNut]

I fishless cycled my planted tanks each time. With a seeded filter it should go quick enough. Patience always pays, I've found. If you're not familiar with the technique I could help you, or you could search it here or on the net. Good luck! It's a beautiful start to a tank!

[Linsay]

Thank you SO much for the great advice.

In order to skip the cycling process, you need to fill your tank about 90% with plants (that's 90% of the footprint) - preferably plants that grow quickly. Here's a quick list of plants you should be able to find for cheap/free, as those of us who have them generally have to throw a bunch out each week b/c they grow so quickly:

Hygrophilla spp.

Limnophila sessiflora

Rotala indica, rotundafolia, macranda

Pennywort

Most sword plants grow quickly

Valisneria spp.

Sagiteria spp.

Good floating plants are:

Giant Duckweed (Lima major) - avoid normal duckweed if you can b/c it's almost impossible to get rid of

Frogbit

Salvinia spp

There are others, like many of the plants you already have. The key is to get that tank filled with plants, so that the plants take up more ammonia/nitrite than the fish can produce. Right now, there aren't enough to do much - you'll still need to cycle your tank.

BTW, I put the groups of plants in what I've found to be the most important order - you want as many stem plants as you can get, then go with roset plants... I use floating plants as a last resort because - even tho they soak up a lot of nutrients - the also block the light that needs to get to the plants you get to see thru the aquarium.

And, this is by no means a comprehensive list! There are hundreds of plants out there that will do the job... just get as many as you can.

[firestorm]

I have some wysteria that you can have for free, it is very fast growing.

Super. I already have some of your wysteria actually - I'm Kraken's wife :ph43r: They're in the bottom photo.

But if I need to have a bunch more plants to make this work then I would love some more if you're willing to part with it.

Thank you

Haha, well then you won't be needing any more of that. I have some Rotala rotundifolia I can take some clippings off from, it grows quite quickly, with good lighting and CO2 it will turn a red color....and I have found it is a very nice type of plant when it grows in all nice and bushy. PM me and I will let you know how much I will give you some for if you are interested. I think grandpoohbah might still have some vals, or I have some I got from him, I can let you have a little of that as well.

[Kraken]

I have some wysteria that you can have for free, it is very fast growing.

Super. I already have some of your wysteria actually - I'm Kraken's wife :ph43r: They're in the bottom photo.

But if I need to have a bunch more plants to make this work then I would love some more if you're willing to part with it.

Thank you

Haha, well then you won't be needing any more of that. I have some Rotala rotundifolia I can take some clippings off from, it grows quite quickly, with good lighting and CO2 it will turn a red color....and I have found it is a very nice type of plant when it grows in all nice and bushy. PM me and I will let you know how much I will give you some for if you are interested. I think grandpoohbah might still have some vals, or I have some I got from him, I can let you have a little of that as well.

Thanks. How much do you want for the Rotala? Ya, I have grandpoohbah's vals. ...I went to Pisces and picked up most of the plants that JVision suggested and my tank's lookin' alot fuller. I fear I may only be about half way there though.