Three questions...(for now)

[Becky]

Well I'm just setting up my 90 gal tank. No fish yet, but two AC 300 filters I had running on my heavily stocked (guppies)30 gallon for two months, black sand, and yes, lava rock piles.

But then I was reading lava rock may be too sharp for cichlids, so I thought I'd better ask some experts before I think about adding the fish.

Also, do I need more than two AC 300s on this tank?

I am interested in a mbuna tank, and was planning to go with one of cookie cutter plans: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_75g.php

I want lots of color, and interest since this tank has replaced our TV's place of honor in the upstairs living room.

So what do you think?

Thanks,

Becky

[Blue Ram]

I personally would not use lava rock -- too abrasive and more difficult to stack unless you glue them together. There are a lot of other nice rock choices if you look around. Mbuna tanks look nice with slate. I have 50 pds of texas holey rock in my peacock/hap tank.

As for filtration, I do not believe the two Aquaclear's you have will be enough. You could either upgrade to 1 Aquaclear 500 and run 1 300 as well or invest in a canister filter.

This is a start and as there are a lot of cichlid fans in Alberta, you should get lots of feedback.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Blue Ram

[Vallisneria]

I have a 90g african tank and I run 1 AC300 and 1 AC500. If I had to do it again I'd go with 2 AC 500 or a AC500 and a cannister.

I wouldn't use Lava rock. Its far too sharp and the fish can get hurt on it. I'd go with slate, round river rocks or limestone. Something that doens't have too mayn pointy edges.

[punman]

I run two AC 500 (110s now) on my 90. I use two AClear 300s on my 45 gallon. I'd say an AC500 and 300 at minimum on a 90.

Two AC 300s might work if you only have say 5-7 average size fish in there, but why bother with a 90 gallon for that few fish?

[stribbelldk]

I would have to agree with everyone so far. Two AC 300 is not enough. I am using an AC500(110), an AC300(70), and a canister rated for 75+ gallons. I also had an AC 200(50)?? cycling on that tank.

The texas holey rock is nice to use instead of lava rock. It isn't as pokey. Slate is great. If you went to Burnco or any other gravel company, they could tell you which rock are aquarium safe. Besides, you can't afford to buy rocks from a local fish store.

What do you have planned for a clean up crew??? I really like the synodontis petricola.

Good luck with the tank!!

Derek

[firestorm]

I agree that lava rock is too abrasive. It would be like rubbing yourself against a big wall of sand paper (course stuff) and could possibly cause injury. Cichlids also prefer sand most of the time, so a good choice there I have 2 AC500's on one of my 90's which is quite heavily stocked right now. This is something good to know, when they test the filters for water flow, they test them without any media. Therefore once you add media, it is taking away from the filters flow rate, making it not as effective as they recommend it for. I usually try to use almost double of the recommended filter size, and it will be less worry about filtration. IMO canisters are the best filters ever. I find they always have a much better flow rate, and most of them are not super noisy, like the HOB's.

Do you want suggestions or help on stocking as well? What type of mbuna were you looking into? Extremely aggressive, mildly aggressive? My best advice is to find out which species you like best, then make sure they are compatible. With mbuna it is best to get groups of them, ratio's of 1m/3-4f or a larger group like 2-3m/7-10f. I sometimes like having 2 males in a large group, it makes the dominant one color up more often....especially with females around :hey: I was told that it is better to have 3 males than 2, so that the aggression is better spread amongst them. I would also recommend finding mbuna where the males and females have color to them, not really drab ones, unless you get other species where they are really colorful.

[Becky]

I would love stocking suggestions. I am trying to learn the Latin names, but it can be a little overwhelming. I am interested in a mildly aggressive set up. I've been studying the Spencer Jack's list, and then checking in a book about species compatability, but I find I am nearly lost. I've tried asking for advice at pet stores, but I find sometimes employees are either too busy, or they just don't know about anything other than "1"/gallon".

I'd also like to go to an auction somewhere, but there again, I'd have no idea what to purchase unless I get some advice before hand.

so, help?

Thanks.

[RD.]

Hi Becky,

I agree with the others, lava rock is too sharp, round river rock/boulders would be more ideal. Also, two AC 110's would be far better on a 90 gallon mbuna tank. On my last mbuna set up (a 55 gallon) I had two AC 110's, and it was perfect, even 1" juvies could handle the current.

For mbuna, shoot for something along the lines of this ..........

Ok, so you want lots of color, and a somewhat mildly aggressive set up. I would suggest looking at some of the smaller, less aggressive monomorphic species, such as yellow labs (Labidochromis caeruleus ), Maingano (Melanochromis cyaneorhabdos), Rusty (Iodotropheus sprengerae), or Pseudotropheus saulosi.

A lot of this is going to boil down to personal preference, and what YOU would like to see in that tank.

IMO a combo of yellow labs & M. cyaneorhabdos would make a striking color combo, and provide lots of action. (12-15 juvies of each) and don't worry about sexing them, it won't matter too much with those fish.

Another nice set up would be 25-30 Pseudotropheus saulosi, with 6-8 males to provide a color contrast with the orange/yellow females. Having several males would provide lots of action as well.

The following photo is a 33 gallon P. saulosi species tank shortly after it was set up. I believe that John ended up with 1/2 dozen fully colored males in that tank.

Just a couple options to consider ..........

HTH

Edited October 4, 2008 by RD.

[firestorm]

With a group of salousi you can also go with a group of the labidochromis sp. perlmutts, it would have an awesome contrast with the whites, yellows and blues in your tank. OR some pseudotropheus polits males would look nice with them (females are a drab brown though). You can also get some labidochromis caeruleus "nkhata bay" which are the white labs. Salousi in my eyes are one of the perfect mbuna because the males and females are colorful, and you get 2 different nice colors all in one

Personally in a 90 gallon I would try for 3-4 different species, and getting around 2-3m/5-9f of each of them. You will at least want a ratio of 1 male for every 3-4 females you have. And with mbuna it is fine to stock it really well.

I will give you the stocking list of my 75. I will however be removing the chewere and the fryeri, and putting in my cynotilapia white top hara's, which I have 7 of them. As well getting some more female salousi.

5 labidochromis caeruleus "nkhata bay" might be 2m/3f

7 pseudotropheus elongatus "chewere" 2m/5f

8 cynotilapia afra "chimate" 2m/6f

3 sciaenochromis fryeri 1m/2f

5 pseudotropheus polits 1m/4f

3 pseudotropheus salousi 2m/1f

Cynotilapia are another really nice type of species, the jalo reef being one of my favorites. But they are more difficult to find around here.....im trying to get mine to breed, but only time will permit that lol.

Edited October 5, 2008 by firestorm

[RD.]

Becky ..... one thing that you will need to decide, is if you want to actively breed any of these mbuna?

If you simply want good color throughout, then that will limit your choices, as most of the mbuna species are

dimorphic, with most of the females being quite drab color wise. As previously stated, A lot of this is going to boil down to personal preference.

[Becky]

I might like to breed them. But I am concerned with hybrids as I don't want junk fish that no one wants. No offense to those who love their hybrids Also, do I need multiple grow out tanks, and all that? I've only got the 90, a 30, an empty 20 and a 10. Maybe I don't have time to raise the fry. How much time/work is involved. Will they survive in the main tank?

Becky ..... one thing that you will need to decide, is if you want to actively breed any of these mbuna?

If you simply want good color throughout, then that will limit your choices, as most of the mbuna species are

dimorphic, with most of the females being quite drab color wise. As previously stated, A lot of this is going to boil down to personal preference.

[RD.]

All mbuna can (and sometimes will) cross breed in captivity. You can reduce the chances of that happening by reducing the number of species in the tank, and by keeping groups where each group doesn't have the same markings/color as the rest of the fish, and each male/males has plenty of his own females to breed with. Ideally each species should have their own grow out tank, or you will have to separate the fish as they mature. (not an overly fun task) With mbuna, you better have a lot of grow out tanks ready to go. lol It will also limit you to the design of your tank, as you have to catch the holding females before they spit. If they do spit in the main tank, and you have lots of small nooks & crannies for the fry to escape to, a few should survive from each spawn. I always had some fry survive in the main tank, but I had a lot of small hiding spots where the larger fish couldn't get at them.

HTH

[Becky]

Well that settles it, I'll be doing the half-assed approach. I will make sure there are plenty of hidey holes, and hope for the best. I am far to occupied with kids (we have 7 of them) and such to commit to any kind of "program".

Thanks for your help!

[RD.]

With 7 kids I'm surprised that you have time for water changes. lol

Good luck, let us know what you decide to go with.

[firestorm]

I agree with Neil, if you only go with a few species, and larger numbers of them, as well as ones that are not too similar looking, you should be fine. You don't necessarily have to take them out when they breed, if you don't have the time to put into raising young ones. Depending on the species of fish I have breeding, I will put all the fry usually in a 10 gallon first, then once they hit about the 1" mark I move them up to a larger size usually being a 20 gallon. You can start selling them at any point but will make the most money if they are around 2" or more. And growing them to that size will probably require another larger grow out tank preferably at least 30 gallons.

With fry they will need to be fed 3-4 times a day with a high protein diet, I like to use the NLS grow out formula. For small fry you can crush it up smaller so they can eat it, then 1" fry can usually eat a whole pellet. Or what I do is once a day while I go to work I throw in an algae wafer for them to munch on. They will require good water quality to grow faster, so they should have 25% wc's every few days or so. All of this will make them grow quite quickly. So yeah raising babies are more work, so if you don't have the time for that all I suggest doing is letting them breed and letting the females naturally spit out in the tank...until you do have the time to raise the fry yourself.

I prefer letting my females hold until about day 18, then I remove them from the main tank. I then either have a 5 or 10 gallon tank available to put them in to let them spit themselves, or I strip them if they haven't spit within 25 days of them first holding. Normally they will carry their young anywhere from 21-28 days depending on the species.

What were you planning on using for hiding for the fish? Many people will use river rocks or slate. If using these all you need to do is create really small openings in some of the rocks, large enough for fry, too small for the other fish to fit. Once you decide on the species you really like, come and ask us if it sounds like a good stock list, there are many of us that should be able to help you. Check out the profiles here http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/afri...nus_gallery.php although they don't have profiles for ALL mbuna.