devocole Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 (edited) Hi Everyone. Trying soil underneath fluorite. Didn't do the whole mineralized soil thing, but i did soak it once, get out the floaties and let it dry for 3 days. Then put er in and layered fluorite on top. Most things seem to be fine. PH, KH, Phosphate etc. I've changed the water 10-15 times over the last 2-3 weeks but when i last checked(full WC 2 days before) the nitrates were in excess of 110ppm. I did a WC again and checked after 2 hours. The nitrates were 55-60ish ppm. Has anyone experienced this using soil, and if so how long should i expect excess nitrates. And i haven't put fish in yet, only plants. How much nitrates would be harmful? I surfed many forums about soil but have not found issues with excess nitrates. Thanks Devon Edited October 3, 2008 by devocole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 The nitrates are likely coming from the soil. How old is the set-up? When the plants get established, you'll see the nitrates go down significantly. I've tried just about everything under the substrate for a planted tank (I will likely never keep a FW tank w/o plants - that's how much I love them!), and have pretty much decided that having nothing is just fine. I used to swear by a Flourite-only substrate because it has the CEC you're looking for in substrate additives, and it looks great. The problem is, a 25gal tank just doesn't cut it anymore, and with bigger tanks (I love my 135, but it's too small!) is that your substrate becomes the most expensive part - it'll cost more than the tank or filters! Now, I just use sand or SIL9. If the tank is new, and there isn't any mulm built up, I'll add some root tabs next to the heavy root feeders. Otherwise, I just use the Estimative Index method of fertilizing, and it's all super easy. HTH Have plants, have fun! :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklfire Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 i dont know the answer to the question but if your serious about the soil google all you can about Diana Walstad's El Natural Method . She is the person who first started experimenting with soil and stuff. She has a book it's called (Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad) i'm sure alot of your answers will be provided there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrandpoohbah Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 This would be a good place to start: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devocole Posted October 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 i dont know the answer to the question but if your serious about the soil google all you can about Diana Walstad's El Natural Method . She is the person who first started experimenting with soil and stuff. She has a book it's called (Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad) i'm sure alot of your answers will be provided there. Funny thing. I have that book out from the library right now. Its great and highly scientific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catshanon Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 I was just going to tell you to get the book from the Edmonton Public Library. I checked it out and its highly scientific. That used to be my bedside reading, and she explains in great detail about the intricacies of the planted ecosystem. Having an aquarium without a filter will be the ultimate triumph, because then the ecosystem is self sustaining. Thats more of a dream :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrosionjerry Posted October 3, 2008 Report Share Posted October 3, 2008 The nitrates are likely coming from the soil. How old is the set-up? When the plants get established, you'll see the nitrates go down significantly. I've tried just about everything under the substrate for a planted tank (I will likely never keep a FW tank w/o plants - that's how much I love them!), and have pretty much decided that having nothing is just fine.I used to swear by a Flourite-only substrate because it has the CEC you're looking for in substrate additives, and it looks great. The problem is, a 25gal tank just doesn't cut it anymore, and with bigger tanks (I love my 135, but it's too small!) is that your substrate becomes the most expensive part - it'll cost more than the tank or filters! Now, I just use sand or SIL9. If the tank is new, and there isn't any mulm built up, I'll add some root tabs next to the heavy root feeders. Otherwise, I just use the Estimative Index method of fertilizing, and it's all super easy. HTH Have plants, have fun! :thumbs: LOL .... isnt it amazing how after moving up to a larger tank... it makes you want to move up to even a larger tank... and on and on and on......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devocole Posted October 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 i'm going to take another look at the soil section. but i don't remember her mentioning anything about super high nitrates. Also can anyone suggest some plants that would be good "filters" in the aquarium. I'm attempting no filters on this one. Right now some hydgro, java ferns, java moss, and a small hornwort looking thing, duckweed. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 You will probably want to get fast growing plants which will suck up the nitrates faster. What type of lighting are you using, and are you using CO2 injection? If you have appropriate lighting and have CO2 injection, those plants will most likely suck up the nitrates even faster. Also, what type of soil did you use? As far as I know peat is a great soil type substrate to use. wisteria, rotala, valisneria....I are some great fast growing plants. I am not an expert yet on too many varieties of plants, so I would not know which ones would suck up those nitrates fastest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werner Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Also can anyone suggest some plants that would be good "filters" in the aquarium. I'm attempting no filters on this one. Right now some hydgro, java ferns, java moss, and a small hornwort looking thing, duckweed. Try using lots of fast growing stem plants- the hygro will be a good one. You may not want to bother with the duckweed (unless you are already have it). The small stuff (although fantastic for water treatment) is a royal pain in the you-know-what when you have to clear it out. And apparently the giant duckweed gets much of its nitrogen, etc. from the atmosphere. Christel Kasselmann's Aquarium Plants states that "The roots do not have any major part in the absorption of nutrients; they serve predominantly as a stabilizing aid." Another floating plant you might want to try is Pistia stratiotes. It's used a lot in ponds, so you may be able to get it from someone who is shutting theirs down this time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Swords also suck up a lot of nutrients and wuold LOVE a soil substrate. Crytps also do great w. soil. Did you use potting soil? How thick of a layer? Potting soil will leach all kinds of nutrients into the water column. If your tank is 50gal or less, I'd only have a 1/4" - 1/2" layer of soil at most with a 2-3" layer of gravel. Like firestorm mentioned, you'll want to make sure that all nutrients (CO2 included) are in ballance - that will help a lot with nutrient uptake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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