Interesting DIY Problem

[Doc_Polit]

I have made several DIY stands so I am familiar with the process.

There seems to be an on-going debate as to whether 2x4 or 4x4 posts make the better corners. I have always used 2x4's and believe that two 2x4's laminated with 1/2" ply in between will give the utmost support.

Being open-minded, I decided to try building my latest stand using 4x4 posts. I managed to source untreated 4x4 pine posts in my area and purchased them. I refuse to pay the price for cedar posts and using pressure treated posts in the house is equivalent to running my lawn mower in my livingroom.

As I was unable to start construction immediately, I stored the posts (flat on a solid surface) in my heated garage.

Yesterday when I went to measure the posts for my cuts I could not believe what I saw. The posts were horribly twisted (warped), split in several places and...worst of all....covered in black mold.

I should have taken pics so you could see the degree of "damage" but, frankly, I needed to get them to the burning pit before I stirred up the mold spores in my garage.

So much for the theory that 4x4's will not warp and/or split. Thank God I had not used them for my DIY.

I believe that even a 50 gallon tank would have come crashing to the floor.

From now on, it's laminated 2x4's or bust......no pun intended.

[DaveDude77]

Here's a silly question: What's meant by 'laminated' 2x4s? is there some kind of coating on it that prevents uneven drying and warping? I don't know a whole lot about wood.

[snaggle]

Here's a silly question: What's meant by 'laminated' 2x4s? is there some kind of coating on it that prevents uneven drying and warping? I don't know a whole lot about wood.

It means taking the two boards and making them one, kind of like ply-wood.

[dylanserbin]

So how much does a DIY stand cost, measureements would be 3'x1'x4'

[snaggle]

it depends on how nice you want to go. I have done some for under $50 and others for $200+.

[bosshog]

My 4'x2'30" high cost $400, it's a nice piece of cabinetry. My 4x30"x40" cost $10 it's a piece of crap. The sky is the limit.

[nathan]

I would personally go with the 2x4's as I'd be covering the stand with plywood, particle board, etc. I look at it this way...how many 4x4's do you see in the construction of houses? It's not just a matter of cost difference, there has to be a reason they go with 2x4's. :P

[BooUrns!]

It's mostly a matter of cost difference. 2x4 & 2x6 are cheaper to use than posts in the quantities that new home contruction requires. The majority of saws have been designed for cutting 2x material aswell. Saws that can cut a 4x4 in one pass are rare and expensive. There are also thermal properties to lumber that make 2x material the better choice for construction. Narrow material allows more room for insulation while still providing structural support.

The warping and splitting of the 4x4 material you had was probably due to improper storage. When the wood begins to dry on the surface, it shrinks at a faster rate than the core of the material. This applies torsional forces on the material and it twists and turns and pulls itself apart. Other environmental conditions would lead to mold growth.

2x material should be fine for building DIY stands. I don't see a reason to add material between the plys to make it an even square. It's a structural element, symetry shouldn't be important inside the stand.

Edited November 16, 2008 by BooUrns!

[Boom]

I'll just add a quick comment, being somone with quite a bit of woodworking and carpentry experience, I know a bit about wood, and its behaviour under different conditions. (You'll see I use words like most of the time, and usually, that's because there are always exceptions to the rule, and many many factors that affect wood properties, which are far too complex to get into detail here.)

As has been said, 2x4 lumber is far better to use than 4x4 lumber MOST of the time. Especially if 2 boards are screwed and glued together. This "lamination" is made even better by using a piece of plywood between the 2 boards. Why? first of all, 2x4 lumber is usually better quality to start with than 4x4's are. 4x4 post are often made from the pith of the tree. That is, the very center of the tree, with the tightest rings. Being the very center of the tree, it often has the highest moisture content, making it very prone to the warping that Doc experienced. It is also generally considered the lowest quality wood in the tree. It is used for things like fence posts, because it's cheap and people generally don't dry out the lumber for their fence first, they buy the wood and build the fence.

The way the wood is dryed also plays a major role in how much it warps. It appears Doc made several common mistakes that caused the wood to warp and mold to form. Doc, this is absolutely no slight at all, I'd just like to help explain why you experienced the problems you did, and why your good wood ended up as nothing more than fire wood.

First you didn't say how long it was between when you bought the wood, and when you found it in such an unuseable state. My first guess would be that the wood had quite a bit of moisture in it when you bought it. Was it freshly cut? Was it kiln dried? These factors determine the moisture content at time of purchase. Next, you laid the wood flat on a solid surface in a heated garage. That would seem to be a good idea, but in reality, you need to allow breathing space on all sides of the wood. Using strips of wood about 1"x1" in between the stacked wood (called stickers), and leaving space between the boards, would allow the lumber to dry evenly on all sides. When one side can't "breath" then the board will retain moisture on that side as it dries on the other sides, causing it to bend away from the moist side. The other problem is your garage is heated, and if the lumber was previously stored outside, than the rapid change in temperature (and probably humidity) would also cause the warping. The reason you got the mold is likely becuase the wood had such a high moisture content when you got it, and couldn't breath properly. It's very common if the wood is covered up or wrapped in a non-breathable covering. The other way that the mold could happen is if the place it's stored (your garage) is very humid. But being Alberta in November, unless you have a humidifier or a dryer vent going into your garage, I'm guessing the air in there is quite dry, so my first guess would be the wood was moist to start with.

If treated and dryed properly, 4x4's made out of good quality wood can succesfully be used for an aquarium stand. But generally speaking, 2x'4's laminated will always be better.

Boom :boom:

[Doc_Polit]

Thanks for all the tips. Much appreciated.

The wood was stored (without stickers) for approximately 2 months. The garage is heated, but via under-floor heating only.

I believe the wood was freshly cut (and stored outside) so it likely did have a much higher moisture content than I initially realized. It definitely was not kiln-dried.

Oh well...live and learn. Like I said, it's 2x4 construction for me from now on. :hey: