corrosionjerry Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I am doing a fishless cycle... I have prime unfortunely not good for this purpose because it binds ammonia... What water conditioner should I be using to do this tank cycle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanker Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Edmonton uses Chloromine compounds in it's treatment process, which will require the use of some kind of agent to bind the chlorine in the water. (Some other communities still use simple chlorine which dissipates after ~24 hours of airation). Chloromine is a combination of ammonia and chlorine, so what Prime does is break the two apart, then binds with them, individually. Once it has bound it's done it's job. So simply... dose the original tank with a proper amount of prime, and let it do it's work on the chlorine and ammonia. Once that original chlorine and ammonia are dealt with (within minutes with proper circulation) then any additional ammonia you place in the tank will NOT be bound by the Prime as it's chemical process will have been used up. It is possible due to the various amounts and concentrations of ammonia and chlorine in the original water that the does of Prime may not be used up the first day, but I assure you that after your first 'cycle dose' of pure ammonia to the water, the remainder will be used and you'll be on your way. Do not add any more Prime unless you do a water change, and I don't believe that is done until the cycle is complete, correct? I have to admit it's been a long time since I looked at the process, exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 If you are doing a fishless cycle do you really need prime before you add the fish? I didn't treat the water in my tank when I did a fishless cycle untill I actually put the fish in. Does the chloramines hurt the bacteria too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geleen Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Edmonton uses Chloromine compounds in it's treatment process, which will require the use of some kind of agent to bind the chlorine in the water. (Some other communities still use simple chlorine which dissipates after ~24 hours of airation). Chloromine is a combination of ammonia and chlorine, so what Prime does is break the two apart, then binds with them, individually. Once it has bound it's done it's job. So simply... dose the original tank with a proper amount of prime, and let it do it's work on the chlorine and ammonia. Once that original chlorine and ammonia are dealt with (within minutes with proper circulation) then any additional ammonia you place in the tank will NOT be bound by the Prime as it's chemical process will have been used up. It is possible due to the various amounts and concentrations of ammonia and chlorine in the original water that the does of Prime may not be used up the first day, but I assure you that after your first 'cycle dose' of pure ammonia to the water, the remainder will be used and you'll be on your way. Do not add any more Prime unless you do a water change, and I don't believe that is done until the cycle is complete, correct? I have to admit it's been a long time since I looked at the process, exactly. This sounds right. You will be adding so much additional ammonia the prime will no longer effect it. You can test this with your daily monitoring of ammonia levels. I just started a 20 gal. tank by taking a little filter material and other good stuff from other tanks and putting it in the new filter. It was ready in 3 day's. Going to a larger tank, this method will speed things up considerably. John Edited November 12, 2008 by geleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrosionjerry Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Edmonton uses Chloromine compounds in it's treatment process, which will require the use of some kind of agent to bind the chlorine in the water. (Some other communities still use simple chlorine which dissipates after ~24 hours of airation). Chloromine is a combination of ammonia and chlorine, so what Prime does is break the two apart, then binds with them, individually. Once it has bound it's done it's job. So simply... dose the original tank with a proper amount of prime, and let it do it's work on the chlorine and ammonia. Once that original chlorine and ammonia are dealt with (within minutes with proper circulation) then any additional ammonia you place in the tank will NOT be bound by the Prime as it's chemical process will have been used up. It is possible due to the various amounts and concentrations of ammonia and chlorine in the original water that the does of Prime may not be used up the first day, but I assure you that after your first 'cycle dose' of pure ammonia to the water, the remainder will be used and you'll be on your way. Do not add any more Prime unless you do a water change, and I don't believe that is done until the cycle is complete, correct? I have to admit it's been a long time since I looked at the process, exactly. Thank You for taking the time to explain that fully.... makes sence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrosionjerry Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Edmonton uses Chloromine compounds in it's treatment process, which will require the use of some kind of agent to bind the chlorine in the water. (Some other communities still use simple chlorine which dissipates after ~24 hours of airation). Chloromine is a combination of ammonia and chlorine, so what Prime does is break the two apart, then binds with them, individually. Once it has bound it's done it's job. So simply... dose the original tank with a proper amount of prime, and let it do it's work on the chlorine and ammonia. Once that original chlorine and ammonia are dealt with (within minutes with proper circulation) then any additional ammonia you place in the tank will NOT be bound by the Prime as it's chemical process will have been used up. It is possible due to the various amounts and concentrations of ammonia and chlorine in the original water that the does of Prime may not be used up the first day, but I assure you that after your first 'cycle dose' of pure ammonia to the water, the remainder will be used and you'll be on your way. Do not add any more Prime unless you do a water change, and I don't believe that is done until the cycle is complete, correct? I have to admit it's been a long time since I looked at the process, exactly. This sounds right. You will be adding so much additional ammonia the prime will no longer effect it. You can test this with your daily monitoring of ammonia levels. I just started a 20 gal. tank by taking a little filter material and other good stuff from other tanks and putting it in the new filter. It was ready in 3 day's. Going to a larger tank, this method will speed things up considerably. John Yep good point John.... I am going to try and jump start it at the same time with some media from another tank.. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishkabod Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 It was my understanding that prime changes(binds) the ammonia so that the bacteria can still remove it but it won't hurt the fish. Am I mistaken?? If not then there is no reason to worry about how much prime you do use and with the right dose of prime for every bit of added ammonia you could conceivably safely add fish before the cycle is complete because Prime does the same thing to nitrItes and Ates. Hmmm FIshless cycle with fish anyone??? cost money but it must be faster than useing cycle or any other product by itself. you would really only need to monitor the levils and dose prime for the added ammonia and some for the extra the fish make. Okay my brainwave has lost power but i hope this idea has merit. Good Luck L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrosionjerry Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 It was my understanding that prime changes(binds) the ammonia so that the bacteria can still remove it but it won't hurt the fish. Am I mistaken?? If not then there is no reason to worry about how much prime you do use and with the right dose of prime for every bit of added ammonia you could conceivably safely add fish before the cycle is complete because Prime does the same thing to nitrItes and Ates. Hmmm FIshless cycle with fish anyone??? cost money but it must be faster than useing cycle or any other product by itself. you would really only need to monitor the levils and dose prime for the added ammonia and some for the extra the fish make. Okay my brainwave has lost power but i hope this idea has merit.Good Luck L In a fishless cycle you want ammonia present to build up the colony of bacteria... ( prime hinders this process ) thus yes prime binds the ammonia and converts it to ammonium if I remember correctly. So in a normal cycled tank you are correct... However this is in a new tank that needs to be cycled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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