I stripped my first Petrochromis ...

[BrownBullhead]

Yes, the title says it all ... I stripped my first Petrochromis.

I got my group of 20 Petrochromis Famula "Nyanza Lac" on 2008-12-09. I traded in a whack of Tropheus Duboisi "Karilani" that I had already sold off the adult colony, achieved my BAP (Breeder Award Program) for the species, etc. Anyway, I paid more for these fish than people in Toronto or Vancouver would likely have to pay, but the local market is not exactly teeming with "Petros", so I didn't mind.

Tonight, after much frustration of being unable to find "egg tumblers" locally, I set out to make my own from a corner filter box (yes, those corner filters! Old school, baby!) borrowing upon the idea of another local hobbyist. Borrowing, **** I plain copied him. I've included some pictures of this "egg tumbler" below - and it actually works!

So, 57 days after acquiring my colony, I stripped two females; one had 10 eggs consisting of nine wigglers plus a "bad" egg, and the other female had 12 eggs with only eyes, but no tail or significant body structure. If this all goes through like I hope it does, that will be 21 fry from two females - a nice beginning with this species!

My aquascaping leaves much to be desired beyond some Texas Holey Rock and flower pots caves, so I will save the fish photography for another day - sorry! But, here's the pictures of the corner filter *** egg tumbler. Please click the thumbnails to load the full size JPEG images in a new browser window.

Please click the thumbnails to open the full size JPEG in a new browser window ... P.S. The eggs were not "stripped" until late this evening; the "tumbler" was empty in this photo.

[JORG]

That looks like a fine tumbler good luck with the hatching----hope to see some photo's of the adults soon

[firestorm]

It looks like a good tumbler to me.

But just a question. Why do people always feel the need to strip their females? I read a site that did studies on stripping and the long term effects it can have on the females. Studies showed that those females never learned to carry fry full term like they do in the wild. And it can be hard on the females because it means more breeding more often. Laying their eggs takes more energy than carrying them. They also said something about it can affect the fry long term and when they get to breeding age, they too might not hold their fry as long as they should. IMO I would rather them spit out in a separate tank than to strip them. I have some females that the previous owner always stripped, and they either spit way too early, or they carry them for alot longer than they are supposed to.

Good luck with the breeding, and I would love to see some pics of the fish too

I had that article bookmarked on my computer that I had crash, I think I came across it accidentely, so finding it again might be difficult.

Edited February 6, 2009 by firestorm

[JORG]

It looks like a good tumbler to me.

But just a question. Why do people always feel the need to strip their females? I read a site that did studies on stripping and the long term effects it can have on the females. Studies showed that those females never learned to carry fry full term like they do in the wild. And it can be hard on the females because it means more breeding more often. Laying their eggs takes more energy than carrying them. They also said something about it can affect the fry long term and when they get to breeding age, they too might not hold their fry as long as they should. IMO I would rather them spit out in a separate tank than to strip them. I have some females that the previous owner always stripped, and they either spit way too early, or they carry them for alot longer than they are supposed to.

Good luck with the breeding, and I would love to see some pics of the fish too

I had that article bookmarked on my computer that I had crash, I think I came across it accidentely, so finding it again might be difficult.

Are you still smoking your fish food or what-----I'm pretty sure you won't change thousands of years of evolved instincts by stripping a batch of eggs and IMO it is easier on the female if she does not hold full term

[BrownBullhead]

Please look at this new image ... some eggs from the second female have this white "cap" to them (egg in bullseye centre of image) - what does that cap mean? It seems to be present on the spot where the body has grown out already on the more mature eggs.

This is *not* at all like the "white egg" I removed last night (and had asked about on this thread).

[JORG]

In my experience the white capped eggs are no good I have had white capped eggs hatch before but they have always died before free swimming----I would remove them

[BrownBullhead]

I don't know when these fish spawned exactly, but it seems that the first female I stripped from, who I had 9 wigglers and 1 white egg, well I lost one wiggler but 8 of them seem to be doing OK ... but, the bad news ... all 12 eggs from the second female seemed to be "fungus" this morning (after I came home from the night shift.

I removed all 12 of those eggs and put them into my Lophiobagrus (Bullhead Catfish) setup for extra protein snacks. Well, here's hoping I can at least raise out these 8, and next time I am going to wait until it seems as though her face will explode. I think the mother of the wigglers (female #1) was holding for maybe 15 - 20 days?

[JORG]

The fungus spreads quick on the eggs that is why I suggested removing the white capped ones. If you can find it methyene blue can be added to slow down the spread giving you time to remove the bad eggs. Sometimes all the eggs are just not fertilized enough and they will start the spread of fungus. Here are some pics of my diy hatchery.

It has a sponge filter and a uv sterilizer and I move an airstone under the basket until the eggs hatch once they hatch there is enough current in the water to keep them healthy until they are free swimming. This set up allows me to remove any bad eggs with an eyedropper in a matter of seconds.

And as a bonus I can move the baskets around when I need to as they fit nice under the lid of a 10 gal tank

[firestorm]

It looks like a good tumbler to me.

But just a question. Why do people always feel the need to strip their females? I read a site that did studies on stripping and the long term effects it can have on the females. Studies showed that those females never learned to carry fry full term like they do in the wild. And it can be hard on the females because it means more breeding more often. Laying their eggs takes more energy than carrying them. They also said something about it can affect the fry long term and when they get to breeding age, they too might not hold their fry as long as they should. IMO I would rather them spit out in a separate tank than to strip them. I have some females that the previous owner always stripped, and they either spit way too early, or they carry them for alot longer than they are supposed to.

Good luck with the breeding, and I would love to see some pics of the fish too

I had that article bookmarked on my computer that I had crash, I think I came across it accidentely, so finding it again might be difficult.

Are you still smoking your fish food or what-----I'm pretty sure you won't change thousands of years of evolved instincts by stripping a batch of eggs and IMO it is easier on the female if she does not hold full term

No, I am just going by what I had read online. I personally would rather let the fish do what they do in the wild, but I will strip mine if they hold for over 30 days. I think it's too much work tumbling eggs, I would rather the females do all the work, they were made to do it anyhow. I also always give my females a couple weeks of rest before putting her back in the main tank.

Nothing wrong with stripping and tumbling, just asking why people do it? Besides that any bad eggs the female ends up eating and getting the protein from. I have so many problems with my polits I got from someone who stripped them when they were still eggs. They always seem to hold them past 30 days so I have to strip them.

[firestorm]

That's a very interesting set up you have there jorg. Actually it is pretty organized lol.

[RD.]

I read a site that did studies on stripping and the long term effects it can have on the females. Studies showed that those females never learned to carry fry full term like they do in the wild. And it can be hard on the females because it means more breeding more often. Laying their eggs takes more energy than carrying them. They also said something about it can affect the fry long term and when they get to breeding age, they too might not hold their fry as long as they should. IMO I would rather them spit out in a separate tank than to strip them.

I won't be quite as blunt as Jorg, lol, but this is another one of those online fairy tales.

Good luck with the eggs, Robert! I too would love to see a pic of the adults.

[Burbot]

It seems like there are a lot of opinions on the merits of stripping mouthbrooders. Some cichlids can take several spawns before the females hold completely to term and release a large # of fry. That's why some cichlidkeepers strip the eggs. I know I couldn't bear to watch an expensive and rare species swallowing or spitting eggs and losing several clutches of fry.

At the same time you miss out on alot of parental behaviour between the female and fry if you do not let them do it naturally. There are several very good reasons to do this. You might want to check out Ad Konings books "Enjoying Cichlids" (page 52-53) or "Back to Nature Guide to Tanganyika Cichlids" (page 38). It might save some embarrassment before quoting online myths and smoking fish food.

There are alot of very good reasons not to strip as pointed out by Konings but at the same time I don't think I would trust an inexperienced female with her 1st brood of Petrochromis fry. Well done!

Cheers,

:beer:

Edited February 16, 2009 by Burbot

[soliver]

As i have noticed by the last couple pictures, you guys are striping your female before the eggs hatch. Is there an advantage to that? I move the female to her own tank, to reduce stress from other fish and let her hold for 2 weeks. When i strip her the babies are free swimming with tiny egg sacks. I have never lost a baby this way. I would think you would get better turn out because your not dealing with fungus. Is this a bad way to do it?

[RD.]

You might want to check out Ad Konings books "Enjoying Cichlids" (page 52-53) or "Back to Nature Guide to Tanganyika Cichlids" (page 38). It might save some embarrassment before quoting online myths and smoking fish food.

With all due respect to Mr. Konings, and I do respect him for his work & research that has been performed on the Rift Lakes, in this regards, IMO he is dead wrong and this has been proven many times over by many hobbyists who do in fact strip all of their females. How do you think the commercial breeders that are dealing with 10's of thousands of fish, with many of these species being notorious for eating their own fry, deal with holding females? They strip them. They certainly don't leave carnivorous species in with their own fry. Even fish classified as herbivores are known to eat their fry, and the fry from others, and in a commercial application must be stripped. Yet I have never once owned a female pond bred cichlid that has not proven to be a good mother to her offspring. As Jorg previously stated, you won't change thousands of years of evolved instincts by stripping a batch of eggs.

I'm not in any way endorsing this manner of dealing with holding females, to each their own, only stating that the idea that offspring need to be imprinted (as Ad puts it) with this behaviour from their parents, is total nonsense.

BTW - here's another comment from Mr. Konings in his "Enjoying Cichlids" book, that is completely false, and again has been proven many times over, by many hobbyists world-wide. (and in many cases, with no females even present!)

Males of many Utaka will not regain or acquire their breeding colours when fed exclusively on dry food.

Talk about smoking fish food ...........

HTH

Edited February 17, 2009 by RD.

[Lana Bollers]

I don't mean to steal this thread in anyway shape or form, but I have a cobalt blue that is now holding for a third time and she can never seem to hold onto the eggs longer then a week... is there something I can do to make her hold onto the lil suckers longers?