why is nls better?

[rED O]

I made the switch to NLS pellets for my oscars because lots of people tell me nls is the best pellet out there. I compared it to hikari cichlid gold. hikari has more protein more vitamins and less fat then NLS. Also when I feed NLS, half of the pellet comes out of there gills or maybe more then half. And because of this my nitrates spike after feeding NLS. Hikari has lots of fresh ingredients too. So what makes NLS the best pellet on the market? or is it just a matter of opinion?

[hybrid]

I made the switch to NLS pellets for my oscars because lots of people tell me nls is the best pellet out there. I compared it to hikari cichlid gold. hikari has more protein more vitamins and less fat then NLS. Also when I feed NLS, half of the pellet comes out of there gills or maybe more then half. And because of this my nitrates spike after feeding NLS. Hikari has lots of fresh ingredients too. So what makes NLS the best pellet on the market? or is it just a matter of opinion?

you buy nls for your oscars?? That must cost you a small fortune...

[rED O]

I made the switch to NLS pellets for my oscars because lots of people tell me nls is the best pellet out there. I compared it to hikari cichlid gold. hikari has more protein more vitamins and less fat then NLS. Also when I feed NLS, half of the pellet comes out of there gills or maybe more then half. And because of this my nitrates spike after feeding NLS. Hikari has lots of fresh ingredients too. So what makes NLS the best pellet on the market? or is it just a matter of opinion?

you buy nls for your oscars?? That must cost you a small fortune...

yeah it dose. I am switching back to hikari. I might also switch to the trout pellets :shifty: what kind do you get?

[RD.]

If half the food comes out of it's gills, the pellet size is too large for the fish. It's very important to choose a food that the fish can swallow whole. (less mess, less waste of food & money) If too much chewing takes place, any food will become messy.

As far as the quantities listed under the guaranteed analysis, keep in mind that protein, fat, as well as the vitamins are all listed as (Min) quantities, so in essence you have no idea what those quantities truly are.

Percentages on labels are for the most part nothing more than numbers that someone wearing a white lab coat have come up with via an in-house analysis. As an example, the crude protein % is nothing more than the total nitrogen content found in the food, it doesn't tell you anything about the amino acid content, the overall quality of that protein, or even the total digestibility of that protein. (as in the protein that your fish can actually assimilate)

An old leather boot would appear as "crude protein" on a pet food label.

In other words it is impossible to judge the quality of one food over another by simply comparing percentages found on a label.

If a fish food label shows a crude protein percent of 48%, but only 50% of that crude protein can actually be utilized by the fish, a more accurate reading for that food would be a total digestible protein reading of 24%. Even as larger carnivorous species mature, the less protein they require in their diet for growth & normal metabolic function. Of course many hobbyists are under the impression that the more protein the better, no matter what stage of life their fish is at. This is simply not true, and can ultimately lead to less than optimum water quality in ones tank. While many species of fish are capable of using a high protein diet, in some cases as much as 50-60% of that protein may be excreted into your aquarium water. Most nitrogen is excreted as ammonia (NH3) via the gills of the fish, with only approx 10% being excreted as solid waste. In other words, most of this wasted protein will never be visually seen by the hobbyist.

The main amino acid (protein) source in Hikari Gold is comprised from a generic fish meal (which I would assume is why the ash content is 15%), vs a max ash content of 9% in NLS. Generic fish meal is made up from processing plant waste, heads, bones, and scales. The high mineral content leads to a high total ash content, which is basically just adding unwanted pollution in your tank. Some ash in any food is unavoidable, but 15% is excessive.

The main amino acid (protein) source in NLS is South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, along with New Zealand Mussel in the flakes & Finicky Fish formula. No generic fish meal, and some of the richest & most expensive ingredients one can use for amino acid content. Also all of the meals used in NLS are comprised from whole fish, whole krill, whole squid, etc - not heads, bones, and scales.

The vitamin c content in Hikari Gold is listed as a fixed quantity (75 mg/kg) - where NLS doesn't have it listed on their label, but I can tell you that NLS contains approx 10 times the amount found in Hikari. 75 mg/kg is basically the bare minimum required by a juvenile oscar. (according to studies involving vitamin c requirements of oscars) The ironic part is that the stabilized form of vitamin c used in fish feeds is actually very inexpensive, so there's really no reason to cheap out in that area. Just as in humans, the more stress a fish is under, the more vitamin c it requires. So if a company cheaps out in areas that are already quite inexpensive, what do you think they are doing in the more costly areas of the raw ingredients? Hmmmm.

Hikari Cichlid Gold

Fish meal, flaked corn, wheat flour, gluten meal, brewer's dried yeast, starch, enzyme, garlic, astaxantin, DL-methionine, monosodium glutamate, vitamins and minerals

What I see in the main ingredients in that formula is basically generic fish meal, then a bunch of grains & starches.

Since when do corn flakes belong in a fish food? And why does a pellet food require two binding agents? (wheat flour AND gluten meal) And why on earth does Hikari contain monosodium glutamate (MSG) ???

NLS Cichlid

Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Mussel Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Garlic, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), vitamins & minerals.

While there are subtle differences in a number of the New Life formulas, the basic ingredients are all very similar.

Try finding those types of ingredients in trout chow.

For the most part, Hikari costs more than twice that of NLS, so if cost is an issue I'm not sure how switching back to Hikari is going to help? Henry at Natures Corner just had the 2240 gr pails of the floating NLS on sale for $75, which if one is feeding properly should last a pair of adult oscars close to a year, maybe longer? Many people simply don't understand how little of a premium quality food one needs to feed.

Edited April 3, 2009 by RD.

[hybrid]

I made the switch to NLS pellets for my oscars because lots of people tell me nls is the best pellet out there. I compared it to hikari cichlid gold. hikari has more protein more vitamins and less fat then NLS. Also when I feed NLS, half of the pellet comes out of there gills or maybe more then half. And because of this my nitrates spike after feeding NLS. Hikari has lots of fresh ingredients too. So what makes NLS the best pellet on the market? or is it just a matter of opinion?

you buy nls for your oscars?? That must cost you a small fortune...

yeah it dose. I am switching back to hikari. I might also switch to the trout pellets :shifty: what kind do you get?

depends on what im feeding. When I feed the cichla ,rtc and shovelnose pond, I literally throw in 2-3 hand fulls of "chow" at a time.. I would go through a can of nls twice a day on that pond alone... My tarpons and hampalas get a half cup trout chow,twice a day..

I would have a 200 dollar food bill every month, if i fed hikari or nls..

The fh's get a mix of "trout chow" and "hikari"..

your welcome to stop by anytime and grab a pound or 2 of "trout chow" and see what ya think..

[rED O]

If half the food comes out of it's gills, the pellet size is too large for the fish. It's very important to choose a food that the fish can swallow whole. (less mess, less waste of food & money) If too much chewing takes place, any food will become messy.

As far as the quantities listed under the guaranteed analysis, keep in mind that protein, fat, as well as the vitamins are all listed as (Min) quantities, so in essence you have no idea what those quantities truly are.

Percentages on labels are for the most part nothing more than numbers that someone wearing a white lab coat have come up with via an in-house analysis. As an example, the crude protein % is nothing more than the total nitrogen content found in the food, it doesn't tell you anything about the amino acid content, the overall quality of that protein, or even the total digestibility of that protein. (as in the protein that your fish can actually assimilate)

An old leather boot would appear as "crude protein" on a pet food label.

In other words it is impossible to judge the quality of one food over another by simply comparing percentages found on a label.

If a fish food label shows a crude protein percent of 48%, but only 50% of that crude protein can actually be utilized by the fish, a more accurate reading for that food would be a total digestible protein reading of 24%. Even as larger carnivorous species mature, the less protein they require in their diet for growth & normal metabolic function. Of course many hobbyists are under the impression that the more protein the better, no matter what stage of life their fish is at. This is simply not true, and can ultimately lead to less than optimum water quality in ones tank. While many species of fish are capable of using a high protein diet, in some cases as much as 50-60% of that protein may be excreted into your aquarium water. Most nitrogen is excreted as ammonia (NH3) via the gills of the fish, with only approx 10% being excreted as solid waste. In other words, most of this wasted protein will never be visually seen by the hobbyist.

The main amino acid (protein) source in Hikari Gold is comprised from a generic fish meal (which I would assume is why the ash content is 15%), vs a max ash content of 9% in NLS. Generic fish meal is made up from processing plant waste, heads, bones, and scales. The high mineral content leads to a high total ash content, which is basically just adding unwanted pollution in your tank. Some ash in any food is unavoidable, but 15% is excessive.

The main amino acid (protein) source in NLS is South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, along with New Zealand Mussel in the flakes & Finicky Fish formula. No generic fish meal, and some of the richest & most expensive ingredients one can use for amino acid content. Also all of the meals used in NLS are comprised from whole fish, whole krill, whole squid, etc - not heads, bones, and scales.

The vitamin c content in Hikari Gold is listed as a fixed quantity (75 mg/kg) - where NLS doesn't have it listed on their label, but I can tell you that NLS contains approx 10 times the amount found in Hikari. 75 mg/kg is basically the bare minimum required by a juvenile oscar. (according to studies involving vitamin c requirements of oscars) The ironic part is that the stabilized form of vitamin c used in fish feeds is actually very inexpensive, so there's really no reason to cheap out in that area. Just as in humans, the more stress a fish is under, the more vitamin c it requires. So if a company cheaps out in areas that are already quite inexpensive, what do you think they are doing in the more costly areas of the raw ingredients? Hmmmm.

Hikari Cichlid Gold

Fish meal, flaked corn, wheat flour, gluten meal, brewer's dried yeast, starch, enzyme, garlic, astaxantin, DL-methionine, monosodium glutamate, vitamins and minerals

What I see in the main ingredients in that formula is basically generic fish meal, then a bunch of grains & starches.

Since when do corn flakes belong in a fish food? And why does a pellet food require two binding agents? (wheat flour AND gluten meal) And why on earth does Hikari contain monosodium glutamate (MSG) ???

NLS Cichlid

Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Whole Mussel Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Garlic, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), vitamins & minerals.

While there are subtle differences in a number of the New Life formulas, the basic ingredients are all very similar.

Try finding those types of ingredients in trout chow.

For the most part, Hikari costs more than twice that of NLS, so if cost is an issue I'm not sure how switching back to Hikari is going to help? Henry at Natures Corner just had the 2240 gr pails of the floating NLS on sale for $75, which if one is feeding properly should last a pair of adult oscars close to a year, maybe longer? Many people simply don't understand how little of a premium quality food one needs to feed.

thanks for the great info, i was hoping to here from you I think its less of I have the wrong pellet size and more of my oscar is a messy eater. he is about 13 inchs and most of the nls comes out of his gills, when i feed him hikari he eats it all. I have a 5 pound bucket of nls and I think hikari and nls are both great. There are some things in hikari that are not in nls and vise versa. so i think I will feed both

[rED O]

thanks again for the great info

I like Hikari and NLS so I think I will mix them:)

Henry at Natures Corner just had the 2240 gr pails of the floating NLS on sale for $75, which if one is feeding properly should last a pair of adult oscars close to a year, maybe longer?

I have 6 oscars, I go though lots of pellets -roll-

[RD.]

hybrid - but you forget, you could feed half of what you are feeding your fish, if you fed NLS vs trout chow, AND your fish would be far healthier for it. You don't have anywhere near the amount of fish to require $200 of NLS per month, not even half that.

Red0 - I have fed adult oscars, red devils, midas, arowana etc, and never experienced what you are stating. What size of pellet (or formula) are you feeding?

[rED O]

hybrid - but you forget, you could feed half of what you are feeding your fish, if you fed NLS vs trout chow, AND your fish would be far healthier for it. You don't have anywhere near the amount of fish to require $200 of NLS per month, not even half that.

Red0 - I have fed adult oscars, red devils, midas, arowana etc, and never experienced what you are stating. What size of pellet (or formula) are you feeding?

I have the new life spectrum jumbo fish formula. I feed it to all my oscars ranging from 4 inchs to 13.

[RD.]

Personally I wouldn't feed your larger oscars the Jumbo Fish (4.5 mm), I would go with the Extra Large Fish formula (7.5 mm floating), which is what I have fed all of the previous species that I just mentioned. With fish such as oscars, RD's. etc, there will always be some fine particles expelled, but I have never experienced anything such as what you described.

[rED O]

Personally I wouldn't feed your larger oscars the Jumbo Fish (4.5 mm), I would go with the Extra Large Fish formula (7.5 mm floating), which is what I have fed all of the previous species that I just mentioned. With fish such as oscars, RD's. etc, there will always be some fine particles expelled, but I have never experienced anything such as what you described.

well I got a 5 pound bucket of it so it to late now. oh well, when it runs out i will get the larger pellet.

[RD.]

I think you'll find that will resolve the issue. I mean I know that oscars are messy eaters, but they shouldn't be losing that much food while they are eating. Also, keep in mind that when feeding NLS, you can feed a LOT less compared to many other brands. It's a very nutrient dense food.

As far as trout chow, I don't know of a single public aquarium in the USA that feeds bulk trout chow to their fish.

Trout chow is specifically designed for fish farmers raising fish for human consumption.

This is precisely why many of the large public aquariums in the USA spend the extra money to feed a high quality nutrient dense food such NLS. People such as Joe Yaiullo, who is one of the world's most highly regarded marine aquarium authorities & the curator for Atlantis Marine World in NY, which houses the largest reef tank in North America, and the 4th largest in the world. Or Charles Delbeek M.Sc., senior biologist at Steinhart Aquarium in San Francisco, who also feeds NLS. And there are several others. Why do you think that would be?

The West Ed mall tried feeding trout chow in some of their aquariums, were not happy with the results, and have been feeding NLS for the past couple of years. I certainly didn't twist their arm, they called me.

As I stated previously in another thread, bulk trout feed will offer a fish reasonable quantities of most nutrients, but by & large it is a far cry from offering a fish (especially warm water species) optimum nutrition. Beyond the "crude" min/max values, the vast majority of nutritional values will not even be found on the bag. The protein content in farm feed such as trout chow is typically derived from a single source (generic fish meal) which is comprised of processing plant waste. Many of these formulas are also excessive in both carb & fat content, in order to ensure that all protein is spared as an energy source, and used solely for growth. (in order to save feed costs) Over time these excessive amounts of carbs &/or fats will cause health issues with most warm water species of fish, such as lipid deposition in & around organs such as the liver.

While generic bulk farm feed such as trout chow is without a doubt very 'economical' for those who own massive systems, and massive fish, it's a far cry from offering optimum nutrition to your fish.

[Dmaan.]

i'm sure ingredients have like 95% to do with it.

esp. with the factors it does to the colouration of the fish that eat the pellets.

i can't say i would spend money on NLS, i'll still with hikari cichlid pellets fo sho.

grab some bio gold once in a while.

[hybrid]

hybrid - but you forget, you could feed half of what you are feeding your fish, if you fed NLS vs trout chow, AND your fish would be far healthier for it.

.. I feed 13 fish that are a foot and 7 of them are pushing 16inches and the 2 catfish and jardini are over 20..

--------------MY FISH EAT MORE THAN MY 2 MINI SHNAUZERS----------------

i just wieghed it out... a handful of trout chow weighs 26.3 grams.. I feed atleast 4 or 5 handfuls a day AT THE VERY VERY VERY MINIMUM..

4.5handfuls x 26.3gram =118.35grams a day and lets pretend I only feed 5 days a week, 118.35 x 5=591.75 and 4 weeks a month 591.75 x 4=2367grams a month..

thats roughly the amount of the 75 dollar pail of nls.. my 55 pound bag of trout chow cost 50 bucks and will last almost a year,,

I agree with you that NLS is one of the best foods on the market,,. but 75 dollars a month is retarded and even if i cut their food intake in half and fed only nls, $32.5 a month is just as retarded, as 75 dollars a month..

If i had a few guppy's and some tetras.. NLS would be great..

NLS is great, just not economical for me..

Edited April 3, 2009 by hybrid

[Dmaan.]

hybrid - but you forget, you could feed half of what you are feeding your fish, if you fed NLS vs trout chow, AND your fish would be far healthier for it.

.. I feed 13 fish that are a foot and 7 of them are pushing 16inches and the 2 catfish and jardini are over 20..

--------------MY FISH EAT MORE THAN MY 2 MINI SHNAUZERS----------------

i just wieghed it out... a handful of trout chow ways 26.3 grams.. I feed atleast 4 or 5 handfuls a day AT THE VERY VERY VERY MINIMUM..

4.5handfuls x 26.3gram =118.35grams a day and lets pretend I only feed 5 days a week, 118.35 x 5=591.75 and 4 weeks a month 591.75 x 4=2367grams a month..

thats roughly the amount of the 75 dollar pail of nls.. my 55 pound bag of trout chow cost 50 bucks and will last almost a year,,

I agree with you that NLS is one of the best foods on the market,,. but 75 dollars a month is retarded and even if i cut their food intake in half and fed only nls, $32.5 a month is just as retarded, as 75 dollars a month..

If i had a few guppys and some tetras.. NLS would be great..

NLS is great, just not economical for me..

that's what i'm saying to.

i wouldn't break a budget just for some NLS, could get 2 bags of mysis some blood worms and a some cichlid gold for the price of 1 300+gram NLS container of pellets.