fleshgear Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 so i had two pairs in my tanks that were doing nothing, they had a nest but nothing ever happened. I noticed the CT bad father had built a nest in his little jar so i decided to give him another try. I almost gave him away on the weekend but i wanted to give him one more try. so i guess i will see what happens. If he eats them this time he will be gone. i also put another ct pair in the other tank. on his last attempt he also ate the eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingin' It Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Just curious, did you try what BlackMumba said to do with the peat moss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleshgear Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Just curious, did you try what BlackMumba said to do with the peat moss? yes i did. and i tried using half reverse osmosis. which also makes the water softer and i tried using black water expert. i have not tried using spawn aid though. i have not been able to find it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingin' It Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 yes i did. and i tried using half reverse osmosis. which also makes the water softer and i tried using black water expert. i have not tried using spawn aid though. i have not been able to find it yet. I've only been able to find Spawn Aid at Pisces and it's about $12.99/bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMumba Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Get rid of the blackwater expert stuff, stop using it, try doing a spawn without it.. You don't need it, plus it does nothing for a spawn IMHO!! I don't use it, never have.. When males are egg eaters, its because the water chemistry is incorrect, this has been my experience. I've had egg eaters, turn into wonderful papa's. I had to play with my water with R/O to get everything perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I can understand that perhaps blackwater extract does not work in your water and respect your opinion. However, in Calgary water that has a ph of 8.0 anything helps. I use almond leaves, blackwater extract, peat, filtered water and spawn aid in an effort to counter act this and am having more successful spawns than ever. Is this because of the blackwater extract or because I have more experience breeding bettas, I could not tell you. Mother Nature has it's own way of doing things sometimes as we all know. As for egg eating dads, it's the opinion of the International Betta Congress that sometimes there's no reason. As for RO water, I am not set up for it but do have some Werner has supplied me with and will try on my next spawn. Unfortunately or fortunately, my spawn tanks are full of fry so that may be a couple of weeks. I am be no means a betta expert but am having some success in Calgary water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMumba Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 There are the rare occassions the male will be an egg eater, but its not the norm.. Blackwater extract is an overrated additive that is not needed IMO, if you have clean water almond leaves.. and peat that should do the trick. He had already lowered his water by adding Peat, blackwater and R/O so he should test the pH level, if below 6.8 it's too low. I know Blackwater extract is recommended by betta breeders all over North America, that also being said everyone at every city has different degree's of water PH... so what works for one place doesn't necessarily work for another. Betta's are great in a PH of 8.. they can do very well in a range of 6.2 to 7.9 if your already adding Almond leaves and peat at 8 PH, then you do not require anything more, your city tap water should provide enough minerals. Hardness of water can range from 2 - 25 GH from very soft to very hard I was breeding mine at PH 8 GH 24 <--- this is really high level of hardness I wouldn't recommend anyone purposely going to this extreme... KH 6 NO3 20 with only almond leaves and peat sacks, I have to add minerals back into my water supply because I use 100% R/0, my well water has too much sodium and a ph of 8.8 to 8.9. So, its very possible your GH is too low, GH being your hardness.. Blackwater extract is a water conditioner that is used to help soften the water and add minerals, adding to much or too little is all it takes. You should check your GH too see as well. I strongly believe, that if your water is incorrect your Betta male will be an egg eater, the only reason a betta will eat eggs if the water isn't perfect to help raise the fry, the male didn't fertilze the eggs and has to eat them, or they are fungal. The very rare case, you get a male egg eater. When I first started out, I had alot of issues. I had to play with all my water to get it right, I had all egg eaters all four males. I couldn't understand so I tried different things, played here and there... Until all those Males, produced fry after many attempts. It was fustrating as heck, but I finally got it down to an art. I have currently on the go 5 spawns with too numerous to count fry. You have to be patient as I had to be, and removing blackwater extract MIGHT be the answer to the egg eaters problem... IT MIGHT NOT be the solution but until he tries he won't know. It's a suggestion, worth trying :thumbs: Good luck on the next spawn attempt I hope it works well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleshgear Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 the water could be the problem, 3 or 4 of the last males all ate their eggs. having that many is probably unlikely. the first 3 spawns i had i did not use any of these things. i might not have even had an almond leaf in there i can not remember. maybe i will just start over. new dechlorinated tap water and an almond leaf and half of a styrofoam cup and some java moss. there is also a few snails in the tank as well i dont know if that makes a difference or not. i will test the water in the tanks before i throw it out for ph gh and kh also nitrate and nitrite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingin' It Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 oh man, all this technical stuff is a lot. Guess that's why I chose the handle, "Wingin' It" hahaha...good luck Fleshgear! I hope you get some fry soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I hear ya!! I don't test for anything as we've discussed. All I know is that all my spawn tanks are full so I must be doing something right. We are all entitled to our own opinion and what works for one aquarist may not work for another. Fish don't read books and neither do I except for murder mysteries and trashy biographies. Over and out on this one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seastar Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I am in Calgary. I set up a new spawning tank on monday. I used only Calgary tap water with Prime and a little aquarium salt. I put my male CrownTail in the tank on tuesday. I was going to wait another week or so to put the female in with him but the girl looked ready. So yesterday I put in a piece of styrofoam cut from a little plate and put the female in a trap tank inside the spawning tank. As soon as the male saw her he started the nest. When I got up this morning I found the female had jumped out of the trap tank and was in with the male. They are spawning right now. I never got a chance to put anything in the water to help them spawn. I hope he has enough bubbles in the nest, she did not give him much time to build it, it is not very big. The water in Calgary changes in the spring, there is more minerals because of the melting and run-off. Could this make the water ideal for spawning? There must be something good in the water right now. These two are liking it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Did you need a san francisco bay brand shrimp hatchery? I might have one for sale, lol!! I seem to have extra!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingin' It Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Did you need a san francisco bay brand shrimp hatchery? I might have one for sale, lol!! I seem to have extra!! LMAO...gotta love auctions. Gets the blood pumpin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleshgear Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 so here is the results of the tests on the two tanks i ddi a 50% water change with tap water on the weekend and also change a heater to an adjustable one. the left tank with the new heater. temp 68. the plug i pluged into did not work. good thing i checked. ph 7.6 nitrite 0.3 gh 160 kh 90 i am not sure why the nitrite was so high. might have something to do with the black water expert. the right tank was temp 80.5 ph 7.8 nitrite 0 gh 200 kh 100 both tanks the water looks the same.. kind of brownish from the black water expert i did not measure the BWE i just put some into each tank. maybe i should measure next time. also i will put a peat bag into one tank and find some spawn aid for the other tank and will test again later. i dont have any RO water right now but i have to get some, so i will probably hold off on the RO for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMumba Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Your water look's great, but the added mineral's of the Blackwater expert might be too much, I would since you have two different spawning tanks. I would try to not add BWE to one and keep one with.. BWE, don't use R/O your PH is bang on... You don't need to lower your PH. The peat sack will do exactly what the BWE does anyways, if you read what Black Water Expert is... you will understand that it is Peat just in a concentrated liquid form. The City water already has minerals, adding more minerals with BWE plus a peat sack is too much of a good thing... IMHO This is what I would do: City water+ the temp of 79 - 80 + Peat sack + almond leave if you have+ epson salt measure to the size of your tank= leave for 4 days empty... test water... slowly introduce male to tank... Let him have the entire tank fo 2 days... lets him build a territory... introduce female after 2 days... release her on the 3 day... provided she is ready. Leave them together for up to a max of 48 hours ... *YES IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT DEATH TO THE FEMALE* i have left females with males over 4 days without issue. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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