planted tank question

[Fishful Thinking]

I am thinking of going back to my roots (lol, kind of a pun in the planted part of the forum) and converting a 20 or 25 gallon tank over to a planted tank. If I buy everything I want to, the figures would be as follows:

- 5-6 watts per gallon

- pressurized CO2

- sand substrate (could be flourite)

- EI method

- either aquaclear or small canister filtration

- inhabitants: red cherry shrimp for sure, maybe galaxy rasboras, cardinals, or furcatas

- plants: cabomba, riccia, Lilaeopsis mauritiana, Hemianthus callitrichoides, Eleocharis parvula, annubius nana

So I am mainly wondering if this is too many WPG, do these plants would work in this setup (or are there others that I should think of) and which, if any, fish would work with the shrimp? Also, is there anything else I should be thinking of?

Thanks!

Edited June 30, 2009 by Fishful Thinking

[fishclubgirl]

Ok, first this is advice from the last person on earth who give advice. I don't even own an aquarium book other than ones on bettas. However, I recently converted some of my tanks to a higher light and can tell you of my experiences. When I started with plants, I had less than one watt per gallon(which I still run some of my tanks on), gravel substrate and no CO2. I do have some low light tanks still like this as my wild bettas like this. They are filled with crypts and anubias(which are fine for low light). My high light tanks are at 3 watts per gallon, CO2 and mixed substrate. To be quite honest, it has taken some time to get this tanks balanced and to control algae. My concern is that you have too much light and will be battling algae. As for inhabitants, please keep in mind, fish will eat baby cherry shrimp. As for advice on the fish in it, I leave that to someone more capable than myself(which would be anyone!!). I just want to see you have a tank that you can enjoy!!

[Kayen]

No, that would be absolute overkill.

For a 20-25 gallon tank you're looking at 2-3 feet.

I'd go T5HO that stuff is powerful stuff if you get a good fixture with good reflector.

-> So for 2ft - 2x24w T5HO, my reccomendation: TEK Fixtures.

I hear the Hagen Glo fixtures are pretty good as well. They seem to be pricier though.

http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-su.../p16872947.html

Or 3x24w, which i'm sure you can DIY just grab some of those sunblaster sticks from

that hydroponics store and rig up a fixture!

Pressurized CO2: Get a good regulator, and a 5lb cylinder, also include brass check valve,

and brass permaseal. Good regulators can be ordered from: http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/

Diffusors, and other planted goodies can be attained from here.

Substrate: ADA Aquasoil Amazonia Powder Type would be the best stuff you can buy.

It's not available in Canada anymore, have to have it shipped in from the states, which

IMO is not worth the hassle. So .. Flourite black sand all the way easily findable, only thing is

It's a PITA to clean.

EI Method: Should be solid, go grab some dry ferts and you're good to go.

Jason (JVision) knows quite a bit about this method as you already know probably.

Filtration: Do no go aquaclear, because it will gas out CO2 as it aerates the water more.

Go with a canister filter like a single XP2, or Eheim 2215, planted tanks require much more

filtration than an average tank - water flow mainly , dead spots = algae.

->http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c5809/c7359/p16366949.html

Inhabitants: Good choice in fish, stick with a single schooling species though.

Get Galaxy Rasboras ( which were renamed to Celestial Pearl Danios )

Plants: I'm not a fan of camboba, if you hate Duckweed, then Riccia will become a constant

pain in the @$$ for you. All other plant choices are fine.

Other things to consider:

CO2 Diffusion: Glass Diffusor or a reactor?

Scaping Materials, etc etc.

Manzanita Wood looks amazing in planted tanks if used properly.

-> Found here: http://www.gillsnfins.ca/manzanita_wood.php

Consider good usage of rocks as well.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Kayen

[werner]

Well... you could make it work. But that's a whole lotta light of be messing with if you're not 100% sure what you're doing. What kind of fixture are you looking at? 3-4 WPG would probably be better.

The only plant I on your list that I would nix is the Cabomba. It's going to be a major weed in a tank like that and you'll be pruning it all the time.

And, as Kayen mentioned, you will want to avoid HOB filters with CO2 addition.

[Fishful Thinking]

Ok, so the cabomba is off the list. Other than vals, what would be some good options for taller, background plants?

I was looking at some coral life 24 inch fixtures, 2x65 watts. Maybe the 20" 96 watt light would be a better fit?

I was thinking of rigging up a powerhead to diffuse the CO2 like I did in my old planted tank. As for the wood, I have a bunch of driftwood kicking around to anchor the anubias. Sorry for the ignorance, but is it really hard to effectively anchor riccia which is why it is a pain?

Thanks for all of the help.

[EDGE]

Most stem plants would do well as background. With that much lighting, you wouldn't have to worry too much about what you can't grow. Something similar to cabomba is limnophila sessilifolia very easy to find.

Ok, so the cabomba is off the list. Other than vals, what would be some good options for taller, background plants?

I was looking at some coral life 24 inch fixtures, 2x65 watts. Maybe the 20" 96 watt light would be a better fit?

I was thinking of rigging up a powerhead to diffuse the CO2 like I did in my old planted tank. As for the wood, I have a bunch of driftwood kicking around to anchor the anubias. Sorry for the ignorance, but is it really hard to effectively anchor riccia which is why it is a pain?

Thanks for all of the help.

Edited July 1, 2009 by EDGE

[Kayen]

Ok, so the cabomba is off the list. Other than vals, what would be some good options for taller, background plants?

I was looking at some coral life 24 inch fixtures, 2x65 watts. Maybe the 20" 96 watt light would be a better fit?

I was thinking of rigging up a powerhead to diffuse the CO2 like I did in my old planted tank. As for the wood, I have a bunch of driftwood kicking around to anchor the anubias. Sorry for the ignorance, but is it really hard to effectively anchor riccia which is why it is a pain?

Thanks for all of the help.

Go T5HO , seriously you won't regret it in the end.

It might be pricier, but it's alot more intense than the power compact fixtures.

Also with power compact fixtues the bulbs start to dim out after a year, so you have to change the bulbs every year even if it's still putting out light. With T5HO when the bulb dies that's when you replace it, so the bulbs last longer and are much more intense for light per watt.

Long term T5HO is much cheaper.

[jvision]

Check out All Season Garden Center - they're just off Whyte ave, and you'll be able to get your ferts and T5 lights there as well, all for good prices. I stopped using specialty plant substrates years ago. If you want a good start, all you need is a good layer of mulm or peat (about 1/4") under a 3" layer of SIL 9 (100lbs will cost about $15... you'll be able to do 3 20 gal tanks with one bag! ).

Keep in mind that with more light, your stem plants will grow FAST! I still just go with 2-3WPG even in my "high-tec" tanks. L. sessilifolia is a great sub for Cabomba. Cabomba doesn't do too well in warmer tanks; however, Cherry Shrimp do not need a heater... not sure about Galaxy's. The more light you have, the more pruning you'll have to do. If you want 5-6WPG, add some salt and some corals. :P

THere are a lot of great background plants. Just about any stemp plant would work, as it will grow it's way to the surface. One of my favorites is Crypt. balansae - they grow to 24" or more, so their leaves will fold over the surface eventually, but their colors can't be beat, IMO.

If you know a welder, see if he knows where to get a tank and regulator for cheap. A few years ago, a friend of mine picked up a 100lb tank and reg for the same price I paid for my 10lb tank at Nature's Corner. I would only get a huge CO2 tank if you're going to run several tank.... or keep one tank FOREVER!

If you don't want to wait on your fish & shrimp, plant the tank as full as possible. If the tank is full of plants, they'll take care of the cyle for you - as ammonia is produced by your critters, the plants will absorb it all until your bacteria colony gets established. I like canister filters for planted tanks, I have found that if I put the spray bar at the bottom of the tank and blow the CO2 into the flow. I like using a powerhead to disperse the CO2 - feed your CO2 line into the INTAKE (not the venturi) of the powerhead, and you'll get a fine CO2 mist that the plants find really easy to absorb. I have read studies that indicate that CO2 mist is absorbed easier than fully dissolved CO2.

FYI, all of my planted tanks have required some sort of algae crew. Even with EI fertilizing (which helps plants out-compete algae), some algae will grow. A BN Pleco would be a good addition, and perhaps a few Ammano shrimp as well.

[Fishful Thinking]

I actually kept around my 20 lb CO2 tank that I had before. I'm thinking I'll just buy some new tubing and I will be good to go!

So 2.4 watts would be enough for the plants I am looking at? That would be the wattage with the T5HO 24 inch double light. Is there any reason I should be worried that the lux rating for the T5HO drops off quite rapidly at 12 inches down and 5 inches forward? I was reading the comparisons on the pets and pond lighting section

Would a Hydor Koralia Nano Water Pump (260 GPH) be too much water circulation for a 20 gallon tank?

Is it possible to have shrimp in a tank with fish and have enough babies survive in order to sustain the shrimp population? I don't need a farm or anything, but if I went for the galaxies/celestial pearls, a BN and maybe some otos, would the baby shrimp just get wiped out continually and I would have to keep buying shrimp as the population ages?

[Kayen]

Well depends on how tall your tank is.

But i have my double T5HO's over my 33g, and i can pretty much grow anything in there if i had proper CO2 , and fertilizing.

However if you're wary, go get 3 sticks for cheap from the place that Jason mentioned above.

As for shrimp , keep good amounts of hiding spots and you should have a sustainable population that doesn't need constant replenishing.

Cherries are like guppies.

[jvision]

Kevin's right about the shrimp. That's another reason why I like canister filters. I had an XP3 on my 90 planted, and when I took it down, there was a thriving population of CS and MTS in the canister... not to mention all of them thriving in the tank itself! Also another great reason to plant the tank fully - lots of hidey holes for the baby shrimp.

[Fishful Thinking]

How much KNO3 (N), KH2PO4 (P), K2SO4 (K), and Trace Elements should I buy to last me for a year? I am thinking of heading to All Season Garden Center tomorrow.

[Fishful Thinking]

Well, the tank is purchased, planted and waiting for some shrimp!

I went with a 20 long and grabbed the 24 inch sunblasters from All Seasons Garden Center. That place is really a great stop for people looking into different ways of setting up a planted tank. Also a very cool groove in the store.

The plants were from Nature's Corner Store--top quality as usual.

I'll post some pics when I get everything sorted out. Thanks to everyone for the help.

[jvision]

I've pinned the EI dosage, and you'll see that for a 20 gal you don't need much at all. The 500mL containers would last you more than a year, easily. But, they never do last that long, because you know you're going to get a bigger tank... then you'll have this 20 just sitting there and all this fertilizer, so you may as well plant it too!!! :P

[Fishful Thinking]

Yeah, I ended up picking up 250 mL containers. I looks like I'll be good for the summer! I really like this tank because it's only a foot deep so pruning and arranging is simple compared to when I had the 90 planted.