Labs & Acei kill dithers

[EowynJane]

My cichlids are still skittish, it was suggested to me that I try adding some dither fish to the tank. I bought 8 zebra danios, I was concerned they might be to small to add to the tank but decided on these because they are supposed to be a clean fish and my tank is already stocked to the max (will be when fish are full grown).

One died about 1/2 hour after I added them to the tank, his mouth seemed to be stuck open so I was expecting that to happen. One more was found belly up in the hornwort the next day and one was missing, this took me down to five. This morning three more are completely MIA and one looks rather ragged and tattered. It's friend looks fine, but I'm not sure what I'll find when I turn on the light tomorrow.

So the cichlids have mostly gone back to hiding though they seem to come out a bit more readily now. I'm still spending as much time as I can in front of the tank, I've even put an arm chair there and turned the TV so I can see it. Anyone have any other ideas? The danios did kind of work, part of me thinks I should buy a whole bunch of them, it doesn't seem to be any worse then buying live feeders after all, but I've never been a fan of this. But I'm not sure who's eating them, both the Labs and Acei are supposed to be plant eaters, could a small BN be finishing off multiple fish a night? I mean I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be killing them, but he could be eating them... makes me wonder how much protine my cichlids are getting. I was told to much protine would cause bloat.

A few other larger, cichlid dithers were suggested but I'm not sure I want to add any thing else to the tank, even temporarily. I'm also remembering that adding the acei worked at first until they started hiding with the yellows and I wonder if the same thing will happen again.

[Qattarra]

The poor ditherers are likely chased to death lol Perhaps removing the hiding spots (rocks etc) and leaving it open as the store tanks are . You'll be amused as how many fish can hide behind 1 rock lol. They may be forced to get used to being in the open after a couple weeks reintroduce the rocks a couple at a time . Just a thought

[jonnytens]

How many fish do you have in the tank? If you don't have too many you could always add some more fish. I have a 110gallon mbuna tank and my fish are always swimming around but I also believe in overstocking mbuna tanks to reduce aggression. Also i find my red zebras to be the most active swimmers, maybe you should try getting some. Just my 2 cents.

[Vallisneria]

Zebra danios probably weren't the best choice for a mbuna tank. If you want to try dithers again, something a bit larger like rainbowfish would be a better suited.

I also found that when I added a school of synos to my africans they became a lot less skittish. The synos are always out and about and I think it reassured the mbuna. Synos need to be a larger school though, otherwise they also hide all the time.

I"m not sure what else you can try besides dithers and trying to get them used to activity around their tank. Whats the decor like in the tank? Are the lights really bright? Do you have a background? Maybe covering the sides too would help.

[Ishkabod]

Good suggestions. I have the same issue sort of and i solved it by completely removing unviewable hiding spots. A few solid rocks side by side with slate to make largeish sort of caveish things but easily viewable The other thing is rocks with straigt through holes big enough for fish to fit in but not completely hide their whole body inside. I can see every single part of my tank but my Mbuna are happy as can be in small shady viweable spaces i've provided so it's fun to watch still. Try that and then see what happens. Also my Synodontis Petricolas LOVE to swim around like crazy and they aren't even noticed by the other fish. I have one very little darkish cave area and the Labs try to cram themselves inside but the petricola's aren't even kicked out when they are in there with no more room for another Lab It's fun to watch the Jostle each other for the little area.

[EowynJane]

I don't think I have anymore room in the tank, I think I've accidentally over stocked it already. I have 5 yellow labs, 5 acei and 1 small bristlenose, all of the fish in the tank are juvies. The tank is a really odd shape, only 3 feet long, tall and skinny. I think it may have originally been someones special order possibly meant for angels.

I'm really not keen on the idea of taking out the rocks... it took a lot to get them stacked properly in the tank so that they were stable. I have a recent picture I'll post when I go home tonight.

The lights are quite bright but not blinding, when no one is near the tank they can be seen out and about. Tank is in the living room so there is lots of natural light. Decor is basically rocks and driftwood. Would they like more plants maybe? The tank really is a work in progress but I've been avoiding planting it fully since it freaks them out when I stick my hands in there. I had some pearl weed planted but it got pretty broken up when I redid the tank a while ago. I do have a back ground, I never thought of covering the sides, does that usually help?

[Vallisneria]

Covering sometimes helps. I've done it a couple times on my Q tank and it worked.

Cover the sides, reduce the light, add plants, add larger dithers, every time you go up to the tank feed them a small amount. Try everything until something helps.

What size is the tank? How big are the fish?

[jonnytens]

How many gallons is the tank? When it comes to africans the word overstock really means OVERSTOCK, in nature mbuna are foud in very high concentrations, in my 110 for example i have around 70 fish, as long as you overfilter your tank and do regular water changes you are fine. Your 10 fish doesn't sound overstocked at all , i don't know how many gallons it is but i would at least double the number of fish. My tank has tons of caves and hiding spots but is a zoo of activity and fish swimming everywhere.

[EowynJane]

Really? Here I am worried about my tank being to full... it's a 50 gallon, but like I said it's an odd size, only 3 feet long. Canister filter rated for a 70 gallon tank, water changes haven't been very big because I haven't seen a lot of nitrates yet. It's a fairly new tank (but cycled yes) I was doing 25%ish with a light gravel vac but I've upped that to roughly 35-40% with a pretty good vac. In all of my other tanks I do 50% water change and gravel vac weekly and that is what I had planned for this tank.

The Labs are about 6 months old (Fairdeal stock ). They vary in size a bit but aren't that big yet... I'm not sure how old the Acei are but I would guess about the same... they're about the same size as the Labs, I really have no idea how big they are but most have grown substantially since I got them (one is still quite small). No idea how old the BN is but he's not very old, he's developing little bristles on the end of his nose, probably almost as long as the cichlids. I've watched but I haven't seen any agression towards him by any of the cichlids.

So... can I add anything? Some of the Acei do come out to see me now but they are still skittish about movement. I like to feed them little bits at a time but I worry the Labs won't get any food if I do that. I also worry the BN won't get enough food since the cichlids love the algae wafers But he seems to be holding his own alright.

Edited July 10, 2009 by EowynJane

[jonnytens]

Really? Here I am worried about my tank being to full... it's a 50 gallon, but like I said it's an odd size, only 3 feet long. Canister filter rated for a 70 gallon tank, water changes haven't been very big because I haven't seen a lot of nitrates yet. It's a fairly new tank (but cycled yes) I was doing 25%ish with a light gravel vac but I've upped that to roughly 35-40% with a pretty good vac. In all of my other tanks I do 50% water change and gravel vac weekly and that is what I had planned for this tank.

The Labs are about 6 months old (Fairdeal stock ). They vary in size a bit but aren't that big yet... I'm not sure how old the Acei are but I would guess about the same... they're about the same size as the Labs, I really have no idea how big they are but most have grown substantially since I got them (one is still quite small). No idea how old the BN is but he's not very old, he's developing little bristles on the end of his nose, probably almost as long as the cichlids. I've watched but I haven't seen any agression towards him by any of the cichlids.

So... can I add anything? Some of the Acei do come out to see me now but they are still skittish about movement. I like to feed them little bits at a time but I worry the Labs won't get any food if I do that. I also worry the BN won't get enough food since the cichlids love the algae wafers But he seems to be holding his own alright.

before I upgraded to the 110 i had a 55 gallon tank with probably 35 plus mbuna in it, it had 2 aquaclear 70's on it. I ran it like that for 2 years with no problems. I use just the foam and pack the rest of the AQ with ceramic rings for extra biological filtration, and run air stones to keep the waste suspended so the filters can catch it. again this tank was great to watch and full of activity.

[EowynJane]

Really? And that's alright to do? I followed stocking guidelines I found on a cichlid site (shown below). This is what they say is suitable for a 55 gallon.

Smaller, Less Aggressive Mbuna Aquarium

Select any 3 species (max 12 fishes):

• Metriaclima estherae

• Pseudotropheus saulosi

• Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"

• Labidochromis sp. "Hongi"

• Labidochromis caeruleus

• Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"

• Labidochromis chisimulae

• Iodotropheus sprengerae

• Cynotilapia afra

Do not mix any Labidochromis species.

[jonnytens]

Really? And that's alright to do? I followed stocking guidelines I found on a cichlid site (shown below). This is what they say is suitable for a 55 gallon.

Smaller, Less Aggressive Mbuna Aquarium

Select any 3 species (max 12 fishes):

• Metriaclima estherae

• Pseudotropheus saulosi

• Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"

• Labidochromis sp. "Hongi"

• Labidochromis caeruleus

• Labidochromis sp. "Perlmutt"

• Labidochromis chisimulae

• Iodotropheus sprengerae

• Cynotilapia afra

Do not mix any Labidochromis species.

Most people i know overstock their african tanks, it is a personal choice though. here is an article from cichlid forum

http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/why_a...an_cichlids.php

[EowynJane]

Well twist my rubber arm and make me buy more fish! So do you guys think I should get more Labs and Acei or should I get dithers? Labs would be easy to get, the Acei would be more difficult.

Of the ones mentioned to me, both here and in private messages I think I like the Cyprichromis leptosoma the best. They seem agreeable to my water and easy to take care of. My only worries are that they are carnivores and from Tanganyika, is it ok to mix these with Mbuna? How many would be a good number to get and what about the male to female ratio?

I plan to take several other steps to help the tank out, I'm working on a plan to cover the sides and still spending time in front of the tank feeding small sporadic meals. I really appreciate everyones help, this tank has been a dream of mine for years and I really want to make it work well both for the fish first of all and also for me. I'm open to any more ideas/suggestions/discussion anyone may have.

[jonnytens]

Well twist my rubber arm and make me buy more fish! So do you guys think I should get more Labs and Acei or should I get dithers? Labs would be easy to get, the Acei would be more difficult.

Of the ones mentioned to me, both here and in private messages I think I like the Cyprichromis leptosoma the best. They seem agreeable to my water and easy to take care of. My only worries are that they are carnivores and from Tanganyika, is it ok to mix these with Mbuna? How many would be a good number to get and what about the male to female ratio?

I plan to take several other steps to help the tank out, I'm working on a plan to cover the sides and still spending time in front of the tank feeding small sporadic meals. I really appreciate everyones help, this tank has been a dream of mine for years and I really want to make it work well both for the fish first of all and also for me. I'm open to any more ideas/suggestions/discussion anyone may have.

I personally wouldn't mix tanganyikans with the mbuna , I would just get more mbuna. Maybe a few more yellow labs and some of the folowing: red zebras, mainganos, hongi's, demasoni's, polits the list goes on. It's up to you.

[EowynJane]

Alright... well, I wouldn't mind getting more of what I already have, the Labs are easy to get but the Acei. Hhhhmmm... I wonder if anyone that I picked up for from Brenda in Airdrie would want to give up some of their Acei.