20 Gallon Planted - What happened?

[Wackinator]

iunno wtf happened, everything seemed fine last night and this morning I have been dishing out dead fish all morning, all the Albino BN are dead, and around 10 platies.

I dished out the remaining survivors and they are in a huge bucket right now but I dont think they are going to make it, they are all swimming funny and I almost think I should put them all in the freezer to end this life, cuz they are all switching back and forth between swimming normally and then passing out almost, they float around until I tap the bucket or they come into contact with each other then start swimming again :cry: the whole tank is ruined as I had to go through all the plants to get the dead bodies

I have to go out soon and probably wont be back before 6-7, and the only fish I think that might be alive by the time I get back is the female guppy :cry:

[Kronosdelsol]

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Edited October 2, 2010 by Kronosdelsol

[Ishkabod]

Good advice and sorry to hear about the deaths. As i was reading i was going to warn you to be sure to regulate the DIY CO2 by having a double bottle system, check valves and a screw type t regulator thingie to manualy control the amount of CO2 just to be sure that the yeast doesn't end up in the tank or a CO2 overdose. Did the Betta's Succumb??? If they did i doubt it's CO2 as they can surface breathers. the only other thing i can think of is that the yeast managed to overflow into the tank.

Now I know this was a tragic happening but i must say what i thought of the pictures.

1 I'm jelous of the planted tank Period.

2 I have a bit of an artistic eye and i noticed you had a number of very tall plants. everywhere. You might want to try to place a bunch of one type of tall plant in one corner with slightly smaller/shorter beside it in the back and a different one in the opposite corner. Then you can place somme mid hight plants in front then smome very short foreground plants. Those lilly's will be very interesting to place in the tank. Get creative and better luck next time

[Shai]

On 28 March 2010 you said the stock list was:

6 Apple Snails

4 Bettas, (2 Crowntail females, 1 Crowntail male, and 1 Crowntail/Halfmoon female)

14 Platies

3 small Albino Bristle Nose Plecos

A lone female guppy

Then on 30 March 2010 you said you added "12 more platies and a lone female guppy".

Nevermind any potential CO2 problems, this tank was severely overstocked. Three BN plecos (even if small) was too much--plecos are poo machines. Apple snails are voracious eaters (which means they are also voracious poo machines) and six of them might be okay in a tank four times the size of yours. All that waste fouls the water quite quickly. Then you had 26 platies too? Besides these fish being prolific breeders, they also add a lot of waste bioload to the tank. (See a trend here?) Even if the tank hadn't been overstocked already, adding so many fish all at once was still a bad move. The existing filter bacteria would not have been able to cope with the sharp increase in bioload, allowing excess ammonia and nitrite to build up.

I will also chime in that, no matter the "exception" experience of others, keeping a male betta in with females all the time is a definite no-no, especially in a tank this small. Even in betta harems (all females), extreme care must be taken because the females can often be more aggressive and deadly than males, particularly if one female gets it into her head that she needs to be "queen". You will always be able to find someone who can tell you a story that such a situation "worked out" for them, but the key is for how long? Success in keeping fish is measured in years, not weeks or months. Male betta with female bettas long-term is a ticking bomb.

[Shai]

PS: You need a tall tank that should be at least 30g for angelfish. Do platies OR mollies but not both (too many livebearers, potential for crossbreeding, etc). There is also some debate about the suitability of mollies in freshwater aquariums rather than brackish.

[Kronosdelsol]

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Edited October 2, 2010 by Kronosdelsol

[Wackinator]

Wow I'm so sorry to hear that. It sounds like they got co2 poisoning (too much co2 being pumped into the tank). If you are reading this and its not too late, turn the filter output up and add a bubbler if you can. give your tank as much surface agitation and water movement as you can. If they are still in the bucket, make sure you pump in oxygen some how.

I hope your multies weren't in there.

Thanks Kronosdelsol and yeah I didn't read this reply before leaving but i had put in an airstone in the bucket before I left, and I wish I had read up more on CO2 earlier because if that is what happened, I could have saved some of my fish.

and no my multies are in their own little 10 gallon, which luckily has been running perfectly.

Thank you

Good advice and sorry to hear about the deaths. As i was reading i was going to warn you to be sure to regulate the DIY CO2 by having a double bottle system, check valves and a screw type t regulator thingie to manualy control the amount of CO2 just to be sure that the yeast doesn't end up in the tank or a CO2 overdose. Did the Betta's Succumb??? If they did i doubt it's CO2 as they can surface breathers. the only other thing i can think of is that the yeast managed to overflow into the tank.

Now I know this was a tragic happening but i must say what i thought of the pictures.

1 I'm jelous of the planted tank Period.

2 I have a bit of an artistic eye and i noticed you had a number of very tall plants. everywhere. You might want to try to place a bunch of one type of tall plant in one corner with slightly smaller/shorter beside it in the back and a different one in the opposite corner. Then you can place somme mid hight plants in front then smome very short foreground plants. Those lilly's will be very interesting to place in the tank. Get creative and better luck next time

Thanks Ishkabod, I am really mad at myself for not doing the double bottle system and not adding a checkvalve =[ but yeah the bettas succumbed to it as well so I dont know, The bettas are the only survivors right now and none of them look too good, I wouldnt bet money on their survival. I dont think that the yeast went in the tank because theres atleast 2 inches between the mixture and the opening of the pipe.

as for the what you thought, I was always jealous of the planted tank as well which is why I attempted this lol, and as for the planting yeah I didnt have any midground or foreground plants and was running short of money so I had to do with what I had, I wanted mine to be artistic and a pleasure to the eye lol and I must have looked at hundreds of planted tanks online but I couldnt figure out how they made theirs look so perfect and no matter what I did, mine looked like crap.

Thank you

blackbelt609 - Don't get too discouraged as it already happened. Everyone experiences dead fish along the way in some form. Just remember that it is a hobby and that you now know how to prevent this in the future. good luck!

Thanks again Kronosdelsol, I know that getting upset by it isnt going to change anything, right now I am reading online about what to do to help my bettas get better, anything to increase their chances. I know that a lot of people have had far worse tragedies strike their tanks but this is the biggest one thats happened to me, so it is discouraging but I will try again.

Thank you

[Wackinator]

On 28 March 2010 you said the stock list was:

6 Apple Snails

4 Bettas, (2 Crowntail females, 1 Crowntail male, and 1 Crowntail/Halfmoon female)

14 Platies

3 small Albino Bristle Nose Plecos

A lone female guppy

Then on 30 March 2010 you said you added "12 more platies and a lone female guppy".

Nevermind any potential CO2 problems, this tank was severely overstocked. Three BN plecos (even if small) was too much--plecos are poo machines. Apple snails are voracious eaters (which means they are also voracious poo machines) and six of them might be okay in a tank four times the size of yours. All that waste fouls the water quite quickly. Then you had 26 platies too? Besides these fish being prolific breeders, they also add a lot of waste bioload to the tank. (See a trend here?) Even if the tank hadn't been overstocked already, adding so many fish all at once was still a bad move. The existing filter bacteria would not have been able to cope with the sharp increase in bioload, allowing excess ammonia and nitrite to build up.

I will also chime in that, no matter the "exception" experience of others, keeping a male betta in with females all the time is a definite no-no, especially in a tank this small. Even in betta harems (all females), extreme care must be taken because the females can often be more aggressive and deadly than males, particularly if one female gets it into her head that she needs to be "queen". You will always be able to find someone who can tell you a story that such a situation "worked out" for them, but the key is for how long? Success in keeping fish is measured in years, not weeks or months. Male betta with female bettas long-term is a ticking bomb.

Thanks Shai for your reply but no the stock list was updated when I added the 12 platies, so the total amount of platies in there was 14. I know that Plecos are poo factories (I didn't know of the snails), but I was doing water changes twice a week, I had thought that would keep the bio load at a safe level. The water was always topped off with aged and dechlorinated water, so I didnt even think of the tank being overstocked. I know you said that the size of the Bristlenose doesnt matter but they were around 1" and I had many people confirm that they would be okay if I did frequent water changes.

I have had a lot of different opinions about the bettas but I guess I should have put a video or something of them on, I know bettas dont school but these did, they would always stay within in an inch of each other and 90% of the time you would see them together. I didn't see any problems with them being together and the breeder I got them from had years of experience and she had also kept them together.

Thanks though for your opinion

PS: You need a tall tank that should be at least 30g for angelfish. Do platies OR mollies but not both (too many livebearers, potential for crossbreeding, etc). There is also some debate about the suitability of mollies in freshwater aquariums rather than brackish.

Yeah sorry I should have deleted the angelfish and the mollies part from the thread. I went to get more platies as I had made up my mind against the angelfish and mollies.

But thanks again!

[Cgy_Betta_Guy]

Sorry to hear about the tank. I noticed you have a couple of tanks and have been in the hobby for a few years but from your original post it sounded like your tank was only a couple weeks old.... and since no one else has asked, the obvious question here would be was the tank properly cycled and did you do any water condition readings on ammonia etc after the big die off? Also since you mentioned cleaning off the white build up on your tank, did you clean it with anything that might have gotten into the tank? I have never experienced a DIY CO2 overdose but my tanks are heavily planted and bigger so I cant contribute on that point but I imagine that it could probably happen quite easily in a 20 Gallon.

[tinkerpuppet]

I have no advice, I just wanted to say I'm sorry, that sucks! How are the last ones doing that were in the bucket? Any survivors?

[Wackinator]

Sorry to hear about the tank. I noticed you have a couple of tanks and have been in the hobby for a few years but from your original post it sounded like your tank was only a couple weeks old.... and since no one else has asked, the obvious question here would be was the tank properly cycled and did you do any water condition readings on ammonia etc after the big die off? Also since you mentioned cleaning off the white build up on your tank, did you clean it with anything that might have gotten into the tank? I have never experienced a DIY CO2 overdose but my tanks are heavily planted and bigger so I cant contribute on that point but I imagine that it could probably happen quite easily in a 20 Gallon.

Thanks CgyBettaGuy and yeah I only have a couple of tanks but have been in this hobby for the 7-8 years so since I was 9-10. The tank was a new setup but most of the initial water was taken over series of water changes from the 10 gallon that has been running for around a year I think and from my friend's 55 gallon which I have no clue as to how long it was running but it's at least also a year old. Then the filter I have been using has been in continuous use, the 20 gallon was almost constantly holding something and for the brief time it wasnt, the filter was also in the 10 gallon, so its established.

The tank was started I think from March 1st or 2nd with the original pair of platies, then the bettas went it later and then the Albino Bristle Nose Plecos on the Edmonton auction day, and then the 12 platies and the guppies. Considering that the water was from 2 different established tanks, and the filter media was also established I think it was fine but if Im wrong please let me know.

And no I didnt do any reading on ammonia, I dont have a test kit so I have never tested for anything other than pH, I guess I should add that to one of the things I will be getting in the near future.

And when I cleaned the white stuff off, I just sort of got as much of it as I could on the net and just disposed of it in the washroom so no cleaner kind of thing got added, I didnt even think of that because I think it would have done same damage soon after if not straight away.

Thanks again

[Wackinator]

I have no advice, I just wanted to say I'm sorry, that sucks! How are the last ones doing that were in the bucket? Any survivors?

Thanks for your kind words tinkerpuppet, it does suck lol, and in the bucket I went to sleep expecting to only wake up with the guppy and platy alive, I woke up to the opposite, and just an hour ago I lost my male betta, so the only survivors are the 3 female bettas.

Thanks again