Requesting help and information on lighting for tanks

[d0hb0y]

Hi everyone,

I appologize in advance for the long post, but i'm one lost newbie fish keeper trying to make sense of all this information and would greatly appreciate any advice and/or direction!

For the last few weeks i've been doing some research in regards to lighting in my tanks and switching them over to all live plants and getting rid of all plastic.

There is A LOT of information out there on the net regarding lighting and it can get rather confusing. I've been reading a lot about how wpg is now a obsolete way of measuring lighting for tanks and people should be using lumens or per square inch or etc etc. As well, my tank lids came with the tanks I bought (starter kits from BA's or your chain fish stores) have lights already built inside them and i've been looking for stronger bulbs to replace the current ones but am having little success.

Then there's the plant issue. I would like to use some easy to maintain plants, nothing overly crazy, plants like Java fern, java moss, anubias, vals and maybe some swords. I've read a lot about picking your plants to match your water, lighting and other plant parameters to make things easier. But i'm stuck on the lighting issue as it stands.

Here is what I currently have, what I have tried, what has happened and what I want the end result to be.

10G tank - 2 Pea puffers and 2 Glass shrimp, mixture of fake and live plants (Java fern, Java Moss and Anubias Nana all attached (using elastics) to rocks and a large piece of driftwood). Water parameters = 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 5ppm Nitrates, pH 7.8

- Originally had 2x15 watt incandescent bulbs, after doing some research on the net someone recommended I change them to the energy saving twisty bulbs because they would put out more light output. So I changed them to 2 x 13w Compact Fluorescent bulbs at 900 lumens from home depot. They also recommended I use some Seachem Flourish Excel every other day (about 0.8ml). After doing this for about 2 weeks all sorts of algae grew all over my tank, brown, blue/green, hair/thread/fuzz, and hydra broke out but the plants were growing. So i stopped using excel and things calmed down a bit. I did water changes (50 - 60%) and gravel vacs every 2 days, wiped down the inside of the tank, scrubbed all the plastic plants and even lightly scrubbed the live plant leaves. I took out all the "black" leaves and took out the Java moss that seemed to be a big brown clump of weeds. It's been a week and everything seems to be ok now I can see a bit of brown algae on the sides of the tank. I spoke to some people online and they recommended I try out these other compact fluorescent bulbs from Ikea so I bought 2 of them (20watts (says it equals 100 watts)x 2 at 1300 lumens. It's been a week and everything seems to be ok. It's been almost 2 months and most of the plants i've bought are now dead or dying. I'd like to be able to fill this tank completely with java moss, java fern, anubias, vals and/or swords.

38G Tank 5 Cherry barbs, 5 Zebra Danios, Water parameters = 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, and 10ppm Nitrates

It has one T8 ballast with only 1 slot for a bulb, currently it has a 24" 17W 8000K. I've tried looking for another bulb to increase the lighting because of a large brown algae outbreak in the tank but i've had no success. I've tried putting some java fern in this tank and it's died off completely. Should I get a new lighting setup all together or is there anything I can do with the current tank canopy I have? Just like my 10G i would like to have java moss and mostly vals and/or swords in this tank for my future angel fish i'm planning on getting.

I'm at a complete loss on what to do with the lighting in these tanks. I love how live plants look and would love to get one up and running but i'm having very little success.

Thank you for taking the time to read this long post (Again, I apologize about the length!) any advice, tips, tricks, guidance would really be appreciated!

[jvision]

The WPG rule is meant for T12 or T8... or other normal output lighting. However, most lights we use now - like Power Compact or T5HO - put out more light per watt; so, they recommend lumens. If you're using Compact Flourescents (NOT the same as Power Compact), you can use the WPG rule. I have grown lots of different plants in a 10 gal using 2x23W CF, fertilizer and Excel with 50% weekly WCs.

You should be able to grow Java fern, Anubias and Java moss with your current lighting in your 38g. Are your tanks newish? Actual brown algae is not too common, and usually occurs in lower light tanks; however, Diatoms are quite common in newer tanks and usually take care of themselves - Ottocinclus also love Diatoms.

If you want to upgrade the lighting on your 38, you can switch to a glass top and a 2-bulb set-up, or look online for a retrofit kit (AH Supply is quite popular with a lot of people). There are also some good DIY ideas out there using eaves troughing.

My best advice is to keep things simple. Growing plants doesn't have to be as complicated as some make it out to be.

[fleshgear]

your 10 gallon tank has a lot of light, one thing with the cfl light bulbs that you need to watch for is the "k" not all bulbs will list it. but warm white cfl's are about 2000k and cool white is about 4000k. what you want is the bright, or sunlight bulbs with as close as you can get to 6700k you can get some that are 6500.

your plants are relatively slow growing. so they are more likely to get algae if everything is not balanced. you dont need that much light for those slow growing plants. you could put 13w 6500k bulbs or even the 9w 6500k. you should get some fast growing plants until your slow growing plants get going better. they will take up the nutrients that the algae needs.

how long do you have your lights on for? you only need 12 hours especially with the higher light you are using on the 10 gallon. 8 hours would probably be enough.

also where is the tank located? if it is getting direct sunlight that could also cause the algae problems.

what kind of sub straight are you using?

[d0hb0y]

You should be able to grow Java fern, Anubias and Java moss with your current lighting in your 38g. Are your tanks newish? Actual brown algae is not too common, and usually occurs in lower light tanks; however, Diatoms are quite common in newer tanks and usually take care of themselves - Ottocinclus also love Diatoms.

Jvision: Anytime i've put some java fern in the 38G tank, it dies within days. The roots attached to the rhizome (I think) turn a dark brown almost black and then the leaves turn yellow then brown and finally black. The tank has been through it's cycle, it's only 4 months old. A few days ago i attached an anubias nana to a piece of driftwood in the 38G and the plant looks "less green" almost a dull green compared to what it was like when I first put it in. I think you are right, I had diatoms not brown algae all over both tanks. I've refrained on getting Ottos because i wanted to make sure my tanks are fully cycled before I put Ottos in there. I've read picking out healthy Ottos are a difficult task and have been keeping my eye on some at my local pet$mart and BAs. Thanks for the info on possibly upgrading my lighting for the 38G, i'll look into it further.

your plants are relatively slow growing. so they are more likely to get algae if everything is not balanced. you dont need that much light for those slow growing plants. you could put 13w 6500k bulbs or even the 9w 6500k. you should get some fast growing plants until your slow growing plants get going better. they will take up the nutrients that the algae needs.

how long do you have your lights on for? you only need 12 hours especially with the higher light you are using on the 10 gallon. 8 hours would probably be enough.

Fleshgear: Which fast growing plants do your recommend? I've heard vals and swords require high light, should I try these with what's currently in my tank? My lights are on 12 hours every day. Tank is in the kitchen/dining room area and there's no sunlight there (direct or indirect). I'm using smaller gravel in my 38G and a mixture of flourite and small gravel in my 10G.

You both mentioned balance, so should I start adding excel to my tanks again (or start adding excel to the 38G when I put plants in there)? What about CO2? Argg... i'm getting frustrated thinking about all this stuff again. I'm trying REALLY hard to keep it simple but when my plants are dying left and right it's hard not to wonder what you're doing wrong and not complicate things.

[Aguabonita]

Agree with above comments. Never used excel. As for a great plant to suck up nutrients, go with hygrophilia polysperma (if it doesn't grow, you've got a lighting problem) and slowly move into the slower growing plants. No need for CO2 or ferts. Keep it simple... anubias, java moss, crypts (wendtii, becketti, balansae) they all do well with minimal intervention.

[fleshgear]

java fern roots are normally dark brown. i dont know why in your 38 the java ferns would die that quick. maybe the plants were not healthy before you got them. swords and vals do not need high light. they wont grow as fast as they should, but they dont need it. in your 10 you have over 2wpg that is enough to grow almost anything, almost. swords and vals would be fine. get a sword. sometimes when you buy swords from lfs they are grown emersed (above water) and then they and you put them submersed. the emersed leaves will die, and new leaves will regrow. they never tell you this in the stores. get some cryptocorynes, they are the best plant ever. lol imo. as for fast growing plants you could try ludwigia, hygrophilia, (not compacta) limnophilia sesafloria, hornwart, guppy grass, just about any stem plants.

[jvision]

Check out Nature's Corner for healthy fish and plants - they have one of the best plant selections and often have some good healthy Ottos.

[d0hb0y]

Thanks for the info everyone. I haven't been to Natures Corner since i bought my plants there a few months ago. Hopefully i'll get some time to check them out soon.

I woke up this morning and noticed some fuzz/hair algae growing on my fake plants and anubias in my 10G...

Time to do more research i guess.

[fleshgear]

get some fast growing stem plants. or any fast growing plant. just not duck weed, you'll regret it

[JLake]

why what swrong with duckweed?

[fleshgear]

why what swrong with duckweed?

it will take over if you let it. and it gets everywhere. it is alright if you have fish to eat it. it is not easy to get rid of.

[JLake]

hahha so manually removing it wont work? I was thinking of getting some to cover a shell dweller tank that gets too much light.

[fleshgear]

hahha so manually removing it wont work? I was thinking of getting some to cover a shell dweller tank that gets too much light.

you can, but you really have to stay on top of it. i would get a different light. or maybe some giant val or regular val. depending on the size and height of your tank. it will provide some nice shade as well as keep the tank healthier. i know shell dwellers dig constantly but once you find a place to get it rooted it will take off. also you could weight the plant down. i have plants in my shell dweller tank.

[Guppygirl]

Here is advice from a newer plant keeper

The one problem with anubias and java fern and java moss is that they are low light, slower growing aquarium plants. Algae is a way quicker grower and will coat the slower growing plants. If you want to grow them then you may want to grow some kind of floating plant-riccia, pennywort (which I both have), try to stay away from duckweed (I have it and I have to take a wooden skewer and scrape the surface of the water with it to remove it quite frequently. The surface plants will diffuse some of the light so it is not so strong for the lower light plants. Just be aware that the surface floaters will take over if not controlled and create a mat-blocking all the light so keep them quite thin. For lights I have used My link they are 6500K and are compact fluorescent that fit into the average 10 gallon aquarium hood. With them you may find that one is enough and the other can be a normal 15watt aquarium bulb. I have two swords under the compact fluorescent bulb and they try and grow a new leaf each in about a week but that tank also has a algae problem on my anubias and java moss they don't like the high light but I also don't have any floating plants in with them. The swords are not affected by algae and they are right under the lights. I also haven't used excel- I have it but I use Flourish Comprehensive supplement for the planted aquarium every so often. I have found that when looking for aquarium bulbs you want to look for ones that say for planted aquariums- others are for saltwater, or are different wattages and K values. I tend to order my bulbs and tubes from petsandponds.com they are Canadian and have a good selection of lighting and other fish supplies. Other option is to try stem plants-which I don't have. I hope this helps and sorry for the long post. :thumbs: :thumbs: