Boom Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Ok guys and gals, I feel like a total newbie posting this, but I'm really stumped and need some input from you. I set up a new 75 gallon tank and started to add fish to it tonight. But as soon as I started to add water from the tank into the fish buckets to start to acclimatize them, the fish started having heavy gill movement (heavy breathing) and going up to the top of the bucket and "gasping". I did not see any flashing or rubbing as is sometimes noticed if the water is not dechlorinated. I unfortunately left after adding some of the tank water in with my new Black calvus, and they all perished. I was able to save the rest of the fish (some syno. petricola and 18 tropheus.) All the regular parameters of the tank check out fine. Ammonia 0, Nitrite as close to 0 as can be measured, Nitrate 5 -10 ppm. Ph 7, general hardness 180mg/L, carbonate hardness 120 mg/L. All as measured with my API test kit. The temperature is right where it should be at about 78* and about 25% of the water is from my well established 180 gallon. The rest of the water was fresh tap water, will dechlorinated with Seachem Prime. The tank is new and I installed one of the Aquaterra 3D backgrounds from Patrick. I used GE Silicone II (black) to install it. I waited 48+ hrs for the silicone to cure before adding water for the first time about a week ago. The substrate is also new, Filter Sil 1.6 from Sil Industries. The sand was well rinsed. The rest of the decor is just some rocks that used to be in my 180 but have been out for months. The filter is a Marineland C-360 and I have a Hydor 300Watt inline heater plumbed in. There was no cycle time as the filter is full of well established media from my sump on the 180, as well as some further bio media behind the background tha is also from the 180. I have two theories and want to run them by you guys and please get your input. First, maybe I didn't wait long enough for the silicone to cure, and it is offgassing in the water, poisoning it? The silicone was quite thick in some places. But wouldn't I get an ammonia reading then? GE Silicone II IS aquarium safe, right? Second, either the sand or the background is leaching something harmful into the water? I kind of doubt it's the background as I know Patrick sells lots of them as well as uses them himself and I've never heard of a problem, but I have with home made backgrounds, so who knows? As for the sand, other than the fact that it is quite fine (like really nice beech sand) I don't think it's any different than other sand. It was well rinsed and appears clean. But again, a possibility? For now, I have the tropheus, synos, and my 1 remaining calvus in a 70 liter rubbermade tote with a filter, heater, and some bubbles for good measure. But thats not a great fix for very long, and I need to get this tank fish safe! Please help ASAP! I know it's easter weekend and you are all very busy, but if you have a few minutes to offer your suggestions on what the issue is, please do! Thanks Boom :boom: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Does it say anything like mold-free ? The mold-free stuff will kill the fish easily. Give a pic or some info on the tube that you have. ADDITIONAL FEATURES Mold-free product protection Lifetime guarantee Non-paintable This one? http://www.caulkyour...ow-and-door.php Give this a read on what is safe to use. Sry for your loss. http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=36149 Edited April 7, 2012 by ckmullin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmi7 Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Only thing that comes to my mind is the silicone. You said you added water only after 48 hrs? Did it smell like vinegar before you added that water? I waited with my 50 gallon till I couldn't smell the vinegar smell anymore. Took about a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blink Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I would also immediately look at the silicone, typically the reptile community suggests at least a week, more often 2-6 weeks to ensure that it's completely safe. I know you probably don't want to hear that considering your fish are in a rubbermaid but GE states that "most of the outgassing will occur in the first 24 hours but may continue for up to 1 week" and in this situation I'd suggest to push it as long as you can before adding water and fish again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Influence Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) I read some time ago that the black in fact leaches poisons in too the water and says in small writing that there is a mildew agent . I think it's your silicone Sorry too hear about your losses ! Blake Edited April 7, 2012 by The-Influence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel al Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I had exactly the same issue 2 years ago when I installed a background from Patrick. I used the same silicone that you did & my fish reacted like yours. It was the silicone. I installed a wet/dry filter in behind my background & I used a fairly large amount of silicone to do it so I gave it a full week to cure. I put the sand , bio media & water in & everything looked great. I added a few fish & within an hour I had my first dead fish. At first I thought the silicone just needed more time to cure so I completely emptied the tank & removed the sand & bio media & let it sit dry for 2 weeks. While it was sitting dry, the glass developed a haze & I wasn't sure what it was. I didn't think it had anything to do with my water because it had only been in the tank a matter of hours & my other fish thrived in it. After 2 weeks I filled it back up again & even with the tank filled you could still see the haze on the glass. I didn't add any sand or bio media this time, I just circulated the water through the sump. After a few days the film on the glass started to lift in spots. Within a few days it was peeling off in small sheets so I installed a fine sponge on my prefilter to catch it as it peeled off & I rinsed it out every day & sometimes twice a day. I also changed the water completely once a week & in 3 weeks the haze on the glass was gone & I wasn't catching anything in the prefilter sponge anymore. I added a couple tetras & they lived so I added some new filter media & new sand. The tank has now been running 2 years & remains problem free. The film that developed had to be from the silicone, I've installed other backgrounds since with clear silcone that I knew was aquarium safe & had no problems, the only factor I changed was the silicone....just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geleen Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Yup the silicone John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boom Posted April 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Thanks everyone. Thats what I was afraid of. I have a feeling that in order to remove all the silicone, I will ruin the background. Damn that pisses me off, but I have some work to do and at least I know now. I used pretty much the whole tube and threw it out, so I don't have it to look any more, but I'm pretty sure the stuff that ckmullin linked to is it. Boom :boom: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 Just for the background or to assemble the tank and background? If also to assemble the tank...remove that pain of glass and use a wire saw against the glass to cut off the background. If just the background grab a handsaw etc that has a low kerf. That will do the trick. Easy as pie. Need specific help, drop a pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boom Posted April 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 No just the background. The tank was bought (assembled) from Big Al's on a boxing day special. I have a zero set (thin kerf, flush cut trim saw) but want to be very careful not to scratch the glass. But once the background is out, how do I get all the silicone off the bottom and edges of the styrofoam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Depends on how thick the styrofoam is. You can use a heat knife to cut away or a sharp utility knife. Small thin shavings might be needed for it to be removed once it's out of the tank. How thin can you slice bread! Edited April 7, 2012 by ckmullin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel al Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I'd do what I did, mines been running for 2 years problem free & I didn't ruin the background. It took some time & effort but it was worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boom Posted April 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Depends on how thick the styrofoam is. You can use a heat knife to cut away or a sharp utility knife. Small thin shavings might be needed for it to be removed once it's out of the tank. How thin can you slice bread! Well I'm not sure about bread, but I used my bandsaw to cut the background to size in the first place, and I can slice wood veneer on my bandsaw 1/32" thick easily. But some of the silicone on the background is almost 1/2" in. If I cut 1/2" off each side off the background, then it's gonna be an 1" too short, and that will look funny! Other suggestions? I'm assuming anything like acetone that will dissolve the silicone will also dissolve the styrofoam and thats no good. I'd do what I did, mines been running for 2 years problem free & I didn't ruin the background. It took some time & effort but it was worth it. I would, but I don't want those 25 fish living in a rubbermaid tote for weeks, and then "hope" it works. Rather undo what I did wrong and do it right. I may end up needing a new background, but lesson learned I guess. If anyone has a tank shorter than 48" that they want a background for, I can part with this one for cheap even tho it's still new. I'll even cut it to size for you and give some tips on the right silicone to use! Boom :boom: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayba Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Guitar strings will cut the silicone (B&high E strings) it's slow and tedious but doesn't hurt glass and is controlled. Just use a stick behind the background where your hands don't fit to push. A bit of lube goes a long way. Or do as Al said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boom Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thanks. The background is now removed and still in one piece. A razor blade has taken almost all of the silicone off from inside the tank. I've started to take the silicone off the background as well with the razor blade and it's getting the bulk of it. How much of this silicone is hazardous to the fish? If there are some small bits of it left hardened on the background that I can't remove without damage, will it still be harmful? What if it's covered with the new silicone that is fish safe? Boom :boom: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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