creekbottom Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I bought a used eheim off one of the members here a few months ago. It's been running well, the tank looks great and I got rid of the HOB! I put a new impeller cover on it but everything else is original. Inside I have a layer of lava rock, then a layer of mixed up eheim media cause that's how I got it, then another layer of lava rock, with a layer of filter floss on top. The motor started out fine, was very quiet, but now it's a bit noisier. I have changed the filter floss layer this week, and everything looks fine inside. Any ideas what might be happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blink Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Air bubble/cavitation? give the canister a gentle shake while running and if it helps that's probably the culprit. It could also be a broken or damaged impeller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekbottom Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Yup did that, I haven't been able to get more air out of it. I cleaned the impeller this week, didn't notice anything wrong with it other than the regular brown 'in filter' gunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 no bits of sand etc anywhere in the impeller area? plug in and unplug fast a couple times...perhaps something just isn't seated properly etc. i've done this sort of thing with my fluval and seem to remove that extra sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 It sounds as though you're confident you have no air lock creekbottom. - Hydrodynamic cavitation occurs when there is a restriction on the suction end; the pump isn't able to draw enough water into the pump chamber fast enough. This creates negative pressure at the impeller, air bubbles form and implode (which makes the sizzling sound, like BBs or marbles). This kind of cavitation damages hydraulic pumps of all stripes. Possible solutions: Check your double tap valve (if you have them) to make sure your suction end is fully open. Check the strainer and siphon tube to be sure it's not clogged. - If some of your lower filter material is slipping past your floss, you just might find filter material laying in your spray bar. Is your floss tucked snug against the canister wall? Is your floss above or below the upper lattice screen? - The only other thing I can think of is to carefully pull the impeller out, check that the bearing/shaft is still in one piece, and that the bearing seats are still in place. And while you have it apart, clean the area where the impeller sits (I use a Q-tip for my 2213s). Put it back together and see what you have. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgd Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 That was my filter, right? Describe the noise a bit more if you can. I've had it make a little noise, but nothing loud. Is is a hum, or a chatter like it's chewing sand or something? I'd pull the filter floss, that's just going to clog the filter faster. Also, you added the lava to what was there? There was a lot of media in that thing to start. If you're keeping it that full keep on top of the cleaning cause that's a lot of media to pull through. Those filters are designed to be more biological than anything else. Filter floss really clogs too fast to be of any use in a filter unless you specifically need to clear cloudy water and whatnot. I never use floss. Maybe a sponge here and there, but even my 165 ONLY has bioballs. Not mech and it's crystal clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekbottom Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Ok, it sounds like something is loose inside. I took out the floss, rinsed the media, and didn't put it all back in. All the media is between the lattice screens. The impeller and all the moving parts look good. I'm pretty sure I've gotten all the air out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 when everything is removed from the unit and empty of water, if you shake it a bit can you hear 'stuff' inside moving around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 You might have a loose part rattling under the head cover, but there's not much under there to rattle creekbottom. The impeller, which is the only moving part, is held fairly firm by the motor magnet in the impeller chamber. That's what you are tugging against in order to pull the impeller out of the chamber. The AC HOBs are the same way. Here is an exploded view of the 2215 Classic. 7438430 is the shaft/bushings. Can you locate both bushings in your canister? If either bushing is missing, there'll be plenty of play for your impeller to rattle. Perhaps other 2215 owners can chime in on this, but I don't think the bushings are bigger than 3/16" Ø On my 2213s, one bushing stays stuck in the impeller chamber. The other bushing comes out with the shaft when I remove the securing piece. So when I clean out the impeller chamber, I hold the canister head over a bowl, or pail in case the bushing falls out (which it hasn't so far). Shine a light into the impeller chamber (hold your mouth the right way) and you will see the bushing (or an empty bushing seat). If a bushing is missing, the rattle will be prominent but not necessarily constant. So describing the nature of the noise, as jcgd already pointed out, is vital. If I unplug my 2213s during regular operation, they will chatter for 2 seconds when I plug them back in. This also happens during brownouts. One of my canisters started cavitating last month; a distinctly different sound to my ears. Not as sharp, higher pitch, longer duration. Each one of mine hums during regular operation, but I can't hear them unless I open my cabinet doors. Then again, I'm paying my dues after years of doing my Rock 'n Roll duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekbottom Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Fisher, your advice has been stellar, thank you very much! I pulled out a bunch of media the other day, the canister is only about half full right now. But I'm pretty sure the constant noise is from the pump head. I looked at the impeller and shaft/bushings, everything is still there and when all assembled and I shake it I can't hear anything moving around. I even pulled off the motor cover just to see, there's nothing under there! Instead of describing, I'm showing you the filter and it's noise. I hope this works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Wow creekbottom! That really sounds like impeller imbalance, or the impeller is impacting the pump cover/impeller chamber. The impeller is comprised of two major parts; a ferrite cylinder (the end that you plunk into the impeller chamber first) and a plastic impeller head (with blades). I know you said the impeller blades look ok. If all the blades are there, that rules out imbalance. Does the plastic impeller head separate from the ferrite cylinder (blade movement)? If the blades are impacting the impeller chamber or the pump cover (7253069), then you’ll see wear (a burr) in on the top or bottom edge of the impeller blades, and maybe even some scuffing on the adjacent pump part (chamber or cover). This might be premature, but it might be time to simply replace the impeller. There are two schools of thought regarding this action creekbottom; buy a 2215 impeller, or buy a 2217 impeller. If you replace the impeller, it’s worthwhile replacing the shaft/bushings too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 It'd be handy if you had access to another 2215/2217 to swap out parts. A way to test if the bushings are worn is to apply a bit of weight on the pump head while it runs. Gently and gradually push down; not lots, say 3lbs tops. If the noise changes (or stops), that's an indicator the bushings might have some play in them. When I bought spares for my canisters, the shaft/bushings cost ~ a third of a new impeller. But if you need an impeller, then changing the shaft/bushings is a good practise. You can always keep the old parts in case of an emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekbottom Posted July 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 An update. I have removed media, done a thorough cleaning and it was still making noise. I looked to see if the impeller blades were impacting anywhere but there was no scuff marks or anything visibly wrong with them. The shaft is still intact and the bushings are snug and tight. I bought a new shaft and bushings kit plus a new impeller, I thought I would try that and see what happened. However, the pump would start to have episodes of complete quiet! Still pumping just as good as before but alternating between that really annoying noise and nothing. So I left it. After a day like that it is now completely quiet again. So I have spare parts and a quiet filter, and no idea what the problem was in the first place. Oh well, it's working. Thanks for the help and suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 If you really want to take it further creekbottom (and I ain't suggesting you should), you can put the new impeller on the old shaft/bushings -and vice versa- and see what happens. A new impeller will wobble on worn shaft/bushngs. A worn impeller will wobble on new shaft/bushings. (but even if they wobble, they won't fall down) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soggycereal Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Had same issue kept thinking it was inside housing. Finally found fault with a loose hose connection (sucked in air) check all connections before spending money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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