nevchewy Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 My Metriaclima estherae is holding! When I got home yesterday she had a mouthfull! The male has been courting her now for over 6 months and i had given up on them, but they finally did the deed! I have one concern though! What are the chances of my F1 Male Saulosi doing the deed, Rather than the Male Metriaclima estherae getting the job done? I know anything is possible, and i'm just hoping that the right guy did the job. Since i re-arranged the rocks in the tank, the fight has been on between the saulosi male and the M. estherae for king of the tank. The male saulosi won in my opinion and since his females are no longer around... could he be lonley and doing the deed with the female Metriaclima estherae? nev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Yes, he certainly could. Saulosi x zebra hyrbids are not uncommon. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevchewy Posted August 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 No need to say sorry... the reason i was thinking this... is I have had 1 male and 2 female Metriaclima estherae for about 6 months now and they have never spawned. Its not a size issue as they are about 4 inches big. Oh well, I had no intention on breeding these fish as i got them from PJ's when i first started my tank. I'll catch her if she holds to term and see if the fry has stripes. Thanks for confirming Dunl! nev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Yep, I agree with dunl. Its quite possible I guess you have to wait and see what the fry look like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevchewy Posted September 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 Well... she spat tonight and the babies are bright orange. a good sign i hope! but if it was the saulosi that did the deed... what are the chances of the fry being orange and still being a hybrid? do you think i'll still have to grow them out to see if they are hybrids based on stripes or color? Just thought i'd post an update. nev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 Never had saulosi fry before, but they should be orange as well. Looks like you have your work cut out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 I agree with Dunl. I've never bred saulosi before but aren't the fry born orange also and then turn blue if they are males? Personally i'd grow them up do a decent size and see if any start to change color. This is why its so important to keep completely different looking fish when breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevchewy Posted September 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 (edited) Saulosi fry and juvies are bright yellow and nothing close to orange. With my F2 batch of fry they were born yellow and are still yellow. these fry are bright orange. i'm going by a small percentage that the saulosi male did the deed... I'll grow them out a bit more... and update then. Thanks! nev Edit to say: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1 the last pic is a picture of how yellow thier fry are. and to say again... the fry that were born... are bright orange like their moma. Edited September 9, 2005 by nevchewy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 P. saulosi fry, as well as adult females, have an orange tinge to them (not exactly yellow, like a yellow lab) but not nearly as orange as M. estherae. Some good shots of juvies in this thread: http://cichlidforums.com/showthread/t-8531.html Having said that, what the fry from a saulosi x estherae cross will look like, is difficult to say. Their color could depend on a number of factors. Chances are good that if they are are more of a solid orange, that they are pure, but I would grow them out & wait for some males to surface just to be on the safe side. This is the problem of keeping more than one species of mbuna in a 'breeding' set up. With the proper m/f ratio sometimes there will be no problems, other times a dom male will take over the entire tank & breed with every female that he can. Here's a recent thread on CF that shows how easily things can go wrong in 'mixed' tanks, even with a breeder that apparently should know better. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=91917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevchewy Posted September 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 Thanks RD... The fish in the picture are not fry and are stepping out of the juvie stage. I know it could be the lighting... but the fry i have are bright yellow. I'm leaving for Jasper here today, and as soon as i get back on sunday night i'll take some pics to show their color difference. saulosi's from what i have read should not be orange. if you look at the female in my avatar... she looks to be a bit orange but i can say that for sure its the lighting. If you remember one of my posts from when i bought the yellow labs at the last ACE auction... you made a comment about their color, but val saw them too, at the auction and noticed that they are yellow but just not as bright yellow as your lab's (Neil's or Kyle's). Yet they looked almost to be orangeish. Picture will show you what i'm trying to describe. I'll post them this sunday night! Thanks RD! nev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 (edited) Yes, true enough, those weren't fry pics. Nevertheless, if you want 100% confirmation that what you have is pure, you won't find it here. You need to grow them out to know better as to what you have. BTW - take a look at the first pic in the article below, and then the second. Both pics were taken in Malawi by Ad Konings, whom also states: Fry, juveniles, and females show a deep orange-yellow color equal in richness to that of a Kodak film pack. http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=82 More pics from Konings, and they refer to the females as "Orange Fishes" http://malawicichlids.com/mw09007u.htm I've seen saulosi females that were a bright yellow, and many that were more orange than yellow. It's not always the lighting Nev, the strain of your fish, as well as their diet, and water conditions, could very well determine the color of your females, juvies, and fry. I've seen many people refer to the fry/juvies & adult females as orange, so it's obviously not just the lighting in all of these peoples tank. Here's a good example: http://www.cichlidae.com/tanks/t026.php Upon release, saulosi fry show their brilliant orange coloration While I agree that they should be more yellow than orange, that still doesn't help you too much in this situation. Bottom line is that when you keep mixed groups of mbuna that look somewhat similar (and sometimes even when they don't) the fish can, & sometimes will, cross breed. Edited September 9, 2005 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevchewy Posted September 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 I have read and seen those sites before, when i first started looking at getting into cichlids. Yes, true enough, those weren't fry pics. Nevertheless, if you want 100% confirmation that what you have is pure, you won't find it here. You need to grow them out to know better as to what you have. I know the only way to tell for sure is to grow them out and i plan on it! I posted to see what the experince of this site and its members had to say. I thank you all again dunl, val, and RD for taking the time and reading what a newbie has to say. From all the post that i have read on CF... every post that has anything to relate to about hybrids, the fish in question and the owner always seems to talk down to. Almost like they meant to cross the fish and that they plan on making a new strain to stick back in the lake. I don't want to be in that position and i'm fully ready to cull the fish if i knew 100% that they are hybrids. I have yet to kill a fish yet as i cannot bring my self to it. I still have the one rusty full of black spots/blotches from the fish i got from Winnipeg. The female rusty is still living in a hospital tank and has not gotten any better. I think as they get bigger and if they turn out to be hybrids... it will be tough for me cull them. I'll post picture to show everyone what color saulosi fry are, as well as the color of the orange red zebra fry. thanks again! nev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 No problem Nev, have fun in Jasper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted September 9, 2005 Report Share Posted September 9, 2005 I've seen yellow lab x zebra crosses that are yellow, just like a lab. Unfortunately, that still means they are hybrids, even if they are coloured yellow like a lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevchewy Posted September 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2005 here are some pics of the coloring of my saulosi juvies. They are bright yellow, but with different lighting and flash... they look orange. the top 2 pics are with out flash and are the closest representation i can show, to what my eye see's. http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?act=ST&f=23&t=4117 nev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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