Sick Rainbowfish, Please Help !

[polleni-puffer]

So I got some Melanotaenia ogilbyi yesterday, acclimated them, and popped them into their tank. They looked fine, ate, and towards the end of the night one of the males was flashing his colors and looking perfect.

This morning, things are not so hot. Both of the females have some sort of nasty fungus/bacteria, and one of the males has a little bit on his tail fin tips. The females are not eating.

I have melafix in the water right now, is there anything else I can do for them ?? I really don;t want to loose these, especially my only two females.

[jeremoose]

If you figure it may be ick, jack the temperature up over 86.

[polleni-puffer]

Here are some crappy pictures of the most affected fish. The blurry one is closest to the color in real life.

[geleen]

Start adding salt , to 1 table spoon per gallon over the next 6 hours. Check the net for maximum dosage.

Check for velvet disease as well.

mixing remedies is not a good idea

J

Edited July 16, 2013 by geleen

[polleni-puffer]

Salt I can do.

Also its not velvet. I am all to well acquainted with that hellish plague of fish-death, and this looks quite different.

[Rainbowric]

It is not ick .... much worse!

Looks like a major skin parasite infection, chilodonella, costia or trichodina......

All can be treated the same way. You can add some salt and malachite green. Salt levels normally need to be high but rainbows tolerate it well. But even as a temporary treatment to slow the disease down you can add 1 heaped tablespoon of rock salt or sea salt for every 20 litres (5 gallons) of tank water. Leave the salt in the water for at least a week, preferably 2 weeks, and then do 10% water changes every day to dilute the salt level.

Most petshops should carry a basic treatment for these diseases and any basic treatment with malachite green should do the job.

*NB* Malachite green is poisonous so try not to get it on your skin and wash your hands well after using it.

Also do a complete gravel clean and clean the filter before treating the tank. And remove any carbon from the filter before treating so it doesn't absorb the medication.

My best guess ... thanks for the pics ... they help.

Good luck

Ric

[polleni-puffer]

Thanks Ric !!

Now I have a question. I have these rainbows in with some other fish, should I pull the rainbows and treat them in their own tank, or should I treat the whole tank ?? All the other fish look fine.

Also, for sea salt, would marine salt work ?? Like the stuff for marine aquariums ??

Edited July 16, 2013 by polleni-puffer

[Jayba]

I hope I am wrong, but here is a little bit on Columnaris - Flexibacter columnaris.Google pic's and compare to what you see.

The first symptom of Cotton Mouth disease is the frayed and ragged fins on your fish. Next, within 24 to 48 hours, you'll begin to notice sores are your fish that appear to be mold. The sores can be pale and barely noticeable, or they can be the "saddleback" lesion that goes from the dorsal fin down each side of the fish giving the appearance of a sadle.

After these signs appear, you'll notice the fish's mouth looks like it is being eaten away and the gills begin to change color. The fish then begins having problems with their gills and start having trouble breathing. The fish can die within 48 to 72 hours after you notice these signs.

What is the Treatment of Cotton Mouth?

You need to begin treatment immediately if you think your fish are suffering from this tropical fish disease. First, isolate the fish from the rest of the tank so the disease can't spread. Next, give the fish food that has oxytetracycline in it. Oxytetracycline is an antibiotic that can kill the bacteria.

Stop using carbon filtration during the treatment and add aquarium salt to improve the fish's gill function. Increase the water agitation and aeration to help dissolve oxygen levels in the tank. This makes it easier for the fish to breath. After you’ve isolated and treated the infected fish, you need to thoroughly clean the tank you removed him from. Change the water and vacuum the gravel.

[polleni-puffer]

Herm, all this info is very helpful !!

I will separate the rainbows from the rest of the fish, it will make everything easier.

Hopefully they will pull through this, cause I really wanted to breed these guys. Not to sure where I could find some more females if they died either.

[Rainbowric]

I sent off some of your pictures to a few breeders I know in the states. I tend to agree with them now as it makes sense. A couple have this species ... however what the consensus is you are going the right way by adding Melafix. Most believe since they were just shipped ... "ammonia burns". Make sure you ammonia levels are as low as possible in the tank! How did the water look that they were shipped in? How long in the water? How much water did they have in the bag? However I believe Spencer just got these in, maybe they were burnt on his trans ship? Have you spoken to Spencer? I think I would hold off on further medication for now and see if it worsens.

Separation is still good but make sure the tank they are in is free of ammonia!

Edited July 16, 2013 by Rainbowric

[polleni-puffer]

Once, again, thank you Ric !!

As it stands, I am down to just one female, the 2nd one died leaving me with just the one.

I have them in a 30 gallon with some dicus and glass catfish, so I'm assuming that the water quality is fairly good, and I have a separate 10 gallon tank set up and running now full of fresh new water that I can place them in at a moments notice.

At current they are in a 30 gallon tank with 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt and the recommended dosage of melafix.

O.k, so lets see about the bag...they were in it for about 4-5 hours if I have to guess. Water was blue, probably with "bag-buddy" or something. Other then that it looked alright. There was about 2/3 to 1 cup of water in the bag.

The males look fine, the one only has a little bit of white on the tips of his tail fin, but the last female is not so hot, she is floating at the surface with clamped fins and fast breathing. She has a red spot on her caudal peduncle, and a little bit of wear on her second dorsal and mouth.

[Rainbowric]

Yeah I had some come in a couple of years ago ... lost the fins on them with burns. They lived okay, didn't swim the best, but did spawn for me.

Time was not that long .. the cup may be a little shy pending condition of water at start and how stressed out the fish are. Females do stress more when bagged.

Should talk to Spencer about it. If he is sold out ... it is the first time I have seen them available in Canada. In the USA Wetspot carries them all of the time. If you are down for a weekend they will ship to your hotel room.

Hope she makes it !

Ric

[polleni-puffer]

*sigh*, well the last female is hanging on, the white has spread along her second dorsal and a bit more on her mouth, and one of her pectorals is stopped working, just sticking out to the side. I hope she makes it.

Oh well, if worst comes to worst I am headed down to San Diego later this summer so might just bring a few females back with me.

[Dongross]

For what its worth I do not believe that these fish have ammonia burns

Ammonia burns normally attack the fins and turn them a whitish color and the fins start to look really ratty

Maybe a delayed ammonia poisoning--are the gills a purple color--I do not think it is poisoning

Parasites normally do not kill quickly--actually takes quite a while

Bacteria is my guess--it will kill quickly and spreads like wildfire

Bacteria is sneaky--it may have been in your tank but your fish were immune or it may have come in on the new fish--bacteria is the main problem with new fish that start to die

It is hard to know what type of bacteria you are dealing with --personally I keep certain meds on hand but have been lucky and have not had to medicate for years even though I import fish from time to time

The name of the game is to quarantine all new fish or be prepared for problems

Don Gross

[RD.]

I concur with Don, and I believe that Jay nailed it. IMO what you are dealing with is one of the nastiest bacterias out there, Flavobacterium columnare (Flexibacter columnaris). I recently posted the folowing on another forum.

Characterization of four Flavobacterium columnare (Flexibacter columnaris) strains isolated from tropical fish.

Decostere A, Haesebrouck F, Devriese LA.
SourceLaboratory of Veterinary Bacteriology and Mycology, University of Gent, Merelbeke, Belgium.

Abstract
Four Flavobacterium columnare strains (AJS 1-4) were isolated from black mollies (Poecilia sphenops) and platies (Xiphophorus maculatus), showing white spots on the back, head and skin ulcers. The isolates developed characteristic rhizoid yellow pigmented colonies on Shieh agar and typical growth in Shieh broth. They were Gram-negative, filamentous bacteria exhibiting flexing movements. When compared to F. columnare strains isolated from temperate fish, it was noted that the four strains originating from tropical aquarium fish are more capable of growing at higher temperatures, the opposite being true for the strains isolated from temperate fish. Biochemical characterization and agglutination tests proved that the isolated strains could be classified as F. columnare. Low minimal inhibitory concentration (MIC) values were found for chloramphenicol, erythromycin, furazolidone, kanamycin, lincomycin, nalidixic acid, oxytetracycline and streptomycin. MIC values were high for colistin, sulfamethoxazole and neomycin. Pathogenicity studies were performed on black mollies. When these animals were submersed in an infective solution of the F. columnare strains, a marked difference in virulence was noted among the four isolated strains, strain AJS 1 being the most virulent one and strain AJS 4 being of low virulence.

The following are confirmed drugs of choice for this disease ...... chloramphenicol, erythromycin, furazolidone, kanamycin, lincomycin, nalidixic acid, oxytetracycline and streptomycin.

The problem with Flavobacterium columnare is that there are several different strains of this bacteria, so while one form or method of treatment may work for one person, for the next it may already be too late to even begin treatment. While there are a number of different medications beyond erythormycin that are proven to work against Flavobacterium columnare, the study (and medication) that I previously posted is probably the most detailed work that has been performed to date, by actual accredited "published" researchers in this field. Annemie Decostere is one of the lead researchers in the world on this subject, has been published several times, and been referenced scores of times in numerous papers on this particular disease. The following paper, also co-authored by Decostere, was published just this year.

http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186%2F1297-9716-44-27.pdf

Hope that helps.