Ich Issues

[Tracyp]

So I know there's plenty of material to read up on for ich and I have but I can't seem to find an answer for the length of time I should take when increasing the salinity of my tank. Here's the deets on my tank:

It's a newly established 12 gallon tank (just finished cycling) with live plants, guppies, a few platys, and shrimp.

0-nitrite, 0-ammonia, 5mg/L - nitrate, PH-7.5

I've lost 2 guppies and a platy, originally I thought it was due to adding too many fish to a tank that was not completely cycled as I had been having troubles keeping nitrite/nitrates down (I've been doing regular water changes and everything seems to have leveled out). Now I'm realizing their symptoms seem to be indicative of complications with ich and I'm now seeing the cysts on everyone else in the tank.

I won't use chemicals due to the risk of harming my plants and shrimp so I'm going with increased heat, salt, and regular gravel vacuuming. I was thinking of gradually raising the temp to 27/28 C, adding salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon so 12 teaspoons and vacuuming the tank every other day or so (hard to do without uprooting all the plants).

Does anyone know if I should add the salt gradually and if so over what time period? Also is that enough salt?

I want to get this kicked asap but don't want to risk stressing my fish any further by dumping in a ton of salt. I've already added 4 teaspoons and everyone seems as happy as expected, they're eating and swimming but a few have slightly clamped fins although that could be due to the ich.

Any help is greatly appreciated!! Thank you!!

Edited April 18, 2014 by Tracyp

[Fisher]

Hi Tracy.

Good for you for thinking though and acting on what's best for your fish. You already have a plan; heat and salt.

"Does anyone know if I should add the salt gradually and if so over what time period? Also is that enough salt?"

Well, you've already begun to sort this out Tracy! Gradually :thumbs: That can be the difference between acclimating and shocking fish in a new environment.

So add the rest or your salt over the course of a few hours, -or- even a day if you really want to, until you reach your target solution. And watch your fish all the while.

Is it enough salt? Time will tell. I haven't dealt with Ich in 20yrs. Perhaps someone who has tried treating Ich with salt will chime in.

Take good care Tracy.

-fisher

[Tracyp]

Thanks for the reply!

I ended up raising the salinity over the course of the day and everyone seems to be handling it ok, including the platy that I thought for sure wouldn't make it another day.

Here's to hoping it works!

[Fisher]

I hope so too Tracy. Ich has a reputation for claiming it's pound of flesh. Preventative measures aside, a timely diagnosis and definitive response is vital.

The forum is a resource for many. Please consider giving us (and them) an update - regardless of outcome.

Happy Easter

-fisher

[Tracyp]

Thanks Fisher,

So everyone is still ok but don't look overly happy, the hard done by platy is still alive and interested in food as everyone else is but still has laboured breathing.

One of my other platys gave birth though so I have about 5 babies!

I was speaking to someone and she suggested I use Seachem ParaGuard which is apparently safe for shrimp and plants? Not sure if anyone has had any experience with it, I would rather not kill off my baby platies though. Any tips are much appreciated!

[flyfisher]

Seachem ParaGuard has always proven gentle on plants & critters for me.I have use it pro-actively in my quarantine procedure but have never used it to treat any active out break .It is expensive so it salt is working stick with that.

[Tracyp]

Thanks for the help! I ended up not using Paraguard as everyone seems to be cleared up and my babies are still doing great. I did end up euthanizing the molly ( realized what I was calling platys were in fact mollies..oops) as she was clearly suffering and not getting any better

[joeysgreen]

I'm just curious, but did you measure your phosphates?

[Tracyp]

No I don't have a kit to measure any phosphates and didn't know it could cause any issues?

[joeysgreen]

The more information the better. High phosphates often indicate overfeeding or under cleaning. It's essentially plant food and I don't know if it directly effects the fish. High phosphates will promote algae growth if there is enough light.

Anyhow, the reason why I ask is because the tank at work I have been struggling with both nitrates and phosphates, while nitrites and ammonia have always been zero.

Ian

[Tracyp]

Ok yes that makes sense I wouldn't doubt I did have an increase in phosphates as I did notice an increase in algae and I hadn't realized just how much debris (poop, decaying plants) I had in the tank prior to the onset of ich. Since I've been doing frequent cleanings the algae seems to have calmed down.

I found cleaning the filter out after doing a good clean really helps to clear out all of the debris and decrease the nitrate issue. If the decaying plant matter and such is just left in the filter I imagine it would just keep pumping out nitrates. (of course don't clean with tap water; only tank water)

[Jayba]

If you fully understand how ich lives, then it is easy to understand how to kill it. Ich is a parasite, which requires a host to live. Fish are the host.

Ich has three life stages. The first stage is the trophont stage, this is the feeding and growth stage of ich. It embeds on your fish, and essentially breaks down the cells around it and absorbs them. The fish's natural immune defenses will protect the trophont by encasing it with thickened skin and slime coat. It will grow until it reaches roughly the size and appearance of a grain of salt. At which time it sheds it's cilia, drops off of the fish, finds a home in the substrate and develops an outer shell. This shell is virtually impenetrable, and therefore ich is still protected through the second stage of life.

The second stage is the Tomont stage in which it lays in the substrate and begins multiplying. It will divide as much as 2000 times inside it's protective shell, but does not feed during this stage. After it has divided the hundreds of new ich parasites essentially "hatch" and sprout cilia. The free swimmers are called theronts. They swim around trying to find a host (fish). If they find one they attach and begin the trophont stage all over again. During this free swimming stage, ich is vulnerable to medication and other treatments. Furthermore it will die quickly if it does not find a host.

Time frames for each stage are extremely dependant on temperature. Higher temperatures speed up the life cycle dramatically. It may take ich several weeks to go through all three stages in a cool pond, while at 80*f + it will go through all stages in a matter of a few days to a week.

One of the reasons so many myths, surround this parasite is that treatment is mis-understood by many people.

Treatment must be maintained, for whatever time it takes to catch all parasites in the free swimming stage. It is vitally important to understand how ich lives in order to treat it properly and completely irradicate it.

Many recommended treatments are either not maintained for long enough time, or not a surefire treatment. There are many methods that might kill it, but can't be guaranteed. A method that isn't completely sure may be a big helper in the battle, but should not be used as a complete treatment IMO. Treatment must be maintained long enough to ensure that all ich is dead, it only takes one free swimmer to find a host and completely infect a tank again. Above 82* F, 3 days is actually enough time after the last trophont falls off of your fish. I always recommend, as do many people, extending treatment a minimum of one week after all signs of ich are gone. That way if you happened to miss seeing one on the fish, you still get the job done. 2 weeks would be extreme overkill, but then some people are happier with extreme overkill.

At the first sign of ich in a tank, you should begin treatment. Mark your calendar, if you don?t want to go through treatment repeatedly. ICH is fully protected while on your fish, and while in the substrate. It is vulnerable to treatment only during the few hours of it?s free swimming stage while it locates a host. With this in mind, when the ich spots are gone from your fish, it needs to be understood that you have not yet begun to eliminate ich. Treatment should begin immediately to prevent further infestation on the fish, But It will do nothing to the parasites already on your fish. Furthermore if you stop treatment after the fish look better, you are shooting yourself in the foot, and inevitably will need to treat again at some future point. Do it right the first time and put this little bug behind you.

[joeysgreen]

Thanks Jayba, that was very informative. What treatment do you recommend?

[Jayba]

Salt heat and time do the trick. I believe the salt does more for gill function then anything but it seems to alleviate some of the stress put on the fish by the increased heat. Like most things in the hobby, patience is key

[Jayba]

Salt heat and time do the trick. I believe the salt does more for gill function then anything but it seems to alleviate some of the stress put on the fish by the increased heat. Like most things in the hobby, patience is key