New Finnex Leds

[Percilus]

I know it's a little late but I too was searching for a good led for a planted tank. I am new to the hobby but I do a lot of research before I jump into something and I've come to the conclusion that for best bang for my buck the Aquaray led's by TMC are a great choice. J&L in Vancouver stocks them and that says something in itself and gives us a great place to order them from at fair prices for the quality. Anyone looking to get through a lot of hoops on this issue should research PAR vs PUR in led lighting and the difference from say T5 par and LED par readings. http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2012/03/pur-vs-par-in-aquarium-lighting.html good link on the subject. If you dig deeper and look hard you will find the pros using aquaray for it's awesome pur and pwm technology at a good price. Apparently in Europe these lights are all the rage but unknown to the masses in north america for many different reasons. I encourage everyone to do research on these lights, and the numerous opinions on them and the science of led lighting in general before buying say a Finnex unit. Especially when we Canadians would be jumping threw so many hoops for that light at the moment when for the same price we could get something far superior for what we want to do any ways right out of Vancouver.

I plan on purchasing the aquaray mini 400 for a small chi or standard 5.5 betta tank to start learning from experience and keep costly mistakes cheaper. Even though I've researched planted tanks to death I think it's something you gotta do a lot of the stuff not just read or watch on you tube.

I'm not saying I'm correct. But I read a lot of different articles on this subject from a lot of different sources. What I found was a bunch of marketing hoopla or un-researched bias opinions promoting this light or that light and not a lot of science backing any of it up until I ran into a article about pur vs par and started digging into things that route.

The only draw back I can see about this form of lighting is it may not make the tanks look as good as say a T5HO setup would to the actual human eye. But for me less carbon footprint, lower energy costs and great light for plants and animals is my #1 concern. Anyone who has gone to a place like Bigal's or petsmart in Edmonton or Calgary know it would not be expensive to augment looks with a cheap LED light on top of the one getting things done any ways But finding one that grows plants as well as a T5HO setup is another matter entirely.

Oh and one more thing when your looking for quality in a product look for the warranty to be massive. TMC warranty is 5 years. Good comparatively priced LED's running on decent but outdated LED technology generally have a 3 year warranty and a lot of knock off garbage has a 1 year or no warranty at all. There is a reason for this and I encourage all who invest heavily in lighting to not be lazy in finding out why.

Well I would say most people buy Finnex because they are "good enough" for their intended use and of course their pricing. They have good experiences with the light so they recommend them to orders. Some people want more bells and whistles and are willing to spend the money on high end lights. I don't believe Finnex does much marketing, especially here in Canada. They get recommend because they are probably the best bang for your buck lights for most people.

I had both the AquaRay and Finnex LED fixtures; the AquaRay were pretty good when they first came out on the market but I believe there are better options now; at least for larger sized tanks; LED fixtures haver advanced so much in the last year or so unless you have a strict budget; i.e. under $150, there are many options out there.

The AquaRay GroBeam 500 I had for around 4 years now; in those 4 years I had to replaced the power supply twice. My oldest FugeRay is around 2 years old i believe and haven;t had any issues with any of them. The light itself is not bad but not great either, the single 19in strip would be comparable to something like a Finnex FugeRay; although by eye, I would say the FugeRay is brighter.

For a budget build, again the FugeRay would be comparable in terms of costs and budget; there would be a couple of issues with the AquaRay; the main issue is mounting over the tank; unless you are mounting them under a hood or rack, or have a glass top, you will not be able to use them out of the box. They are geared more towards the marine crowd as most marine fixtures are designed to be mounted on rails and hung. The mounting legs are sold separately and not really ideal as they are designed work with two rails; you are looking at about another $50 for tank mount. The other issue is the odd length (19"); they are not bad if you have a standard 2 foot or 4 foot tank but anything in between you are generally stuck with a single 19" module if you use their tank mounts.

Second thing is their price; there mini tiles are not bad for small cube tank, as are their single modules but once you get into two or more modules and/or their large tiles you are moving beyond the budget lights and you are moving into the higher end LED lighting where there are lots of other options like the AI Hydra, Maxspect, Exo Tech Radion, etc; For what it is (as a single module); I would say the Finnex Ray II cost about 2/3 the price with probably twice the output. From my limited plant experience, I would definitely say the plants that i have (mostly mosses) seems to better under the Ray II than AquaRay. To light up a 4 ft tank with the AquaRay you will probably need 4 of the GroBeam 600's or 2-3 of the GroBeam 1500's.

I get the whole PUR vs PAR argument; and i think that why we are starting to see more different coloured LED in planted LED lights but my requirements are fairly simple; i just want to light up my tanks with a decent amount of light for the lowest cost possible while still being able to grow some mosses and such.

I hear yea man. My issue with finnex other than even trying to get it into the country right now and the zero warranty on their product was that with an led fixture good luck ever having a high tech tank growing any plant with high light requirements. Your correct the aquaray does look less bright to the naked eye I have read that. But the finnex units also use a lot of yellow and I believe green spectrum in their light. Those areas don't benefit plants or animals just a aesthetic look to the naked eye and it's been researched/proved by a lot of science out there. The prices are comparable. That being said any LED fixture even the most expensive high end one currently available is said to have a hard time growing anything deeper than 15 inches like say a T5 light. The LED's on the market that are duplicating results of the lets face it far superior T5 setups granted are all pwm high pur units. The plus with led is low energy costs, very little heat coming off the lights in led and no mercury in the light well easily managing low to medium setups and depending on the fixtures now having success in high requirements of light marine and planted tanks. The down side is the technology isn't as powerful as a T5 setup yet. Much safer and energy efficient though which is important to me. Aquaray for bang for the buck if you want LED's is far superior in my opinion and I have never even grown a plant yet haha. Maybe I'm wrong I'll be finding out soon haha. But yea if a really bright well lit tank is super important to you over say efficiency/optimal plant and animal growth I could see going to a light that has less useful growth spectrum light and more eyeball friendly spectrums at a cheaper price.

I'm fully aware I could be dead wrong. My goal is to one day have a high light tank and I don't want to purchase equipment that cannot be put to that use at a later date. Granted if your going to go low-tech and never work towards a high tech tank this would not be an issue

Thanks for the reply I liked reading your experience with the older models of light there. To anyone reading these I have 0 experience growing anything. I'm going off research and opinions of people who don't show up in a google search engine until page 12 but come right up on page 1 in duckduckgo.com

Edited December 16, 2014 by Percilus

[Percilus]

http://aquarium-digest.com/2010/06/30/led-light-review-tmc-xg-1500-maxspect-more/

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html

Good links on things. This one doesn't speak about finnex lights directly though I don't think. go figure haha.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Percilus

[Ron]

Instead of sticking to your articles, you should search through planted tank forums where there are plenty of people with with real experience with LEDs.

Unfortunately the par and pur theories have gone the way of the dodo bird. Par is applicable to human sight, not plants. Pur was thought for a long time to be the engine which drove photosynthesis. The reason for this was that the precise wavelength which exactly matched the length of a chlorphyll molecule was thought to transfer the most energy. When the U.S. Universities got deep into determining the photosynthesis reaction they discovered that it was driven by a collection of frequencies which produced a halo. It is this " halo" which energises photosynthesis. There have been a few articles on the internet discusing this phenomen.

Posted in reply to yours in another thread. I'm no expert in LED technology but I have used them to grow aquatic plants for the last 6 years. Not really interested in high tech plants, my reef tank keeps me busy enough.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ron

[Jaykit]

I am interested in following this discussion. Where is the other thread being discussed?

[Ron]

http://aquarium-digest.com/2010/06/30/led-light-review-tmc-xg-1500-maxspect-more/

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Lighting.html

Good links on things. This one doesn't speak about finnex lights directly though I don't think. go figure haha.

Again I'm no lighting expert but those sound like sales pitches to me. There ia a lot of good information in there but a lot of nonsense too.

Not sure how many reefers he's spoke to but he needs to figure out their priorites before he writes about them. First of all reefing is one of the least environmentally friendly hobbies out there; it doesn't have to be, but it is. Many don't care that the live rock they purchase is being harvested destroying natural reefs or that most coral and fish are collected from the wild. So saving a couple bucks in light efficiency doesn't make most reefers blink. Yes a lot of higher end lights have emitters that don't fall into his PUR wave lengths but who cares, people want a tank they like to look at. If his arguement is about growth, I know people who have there lights change throughout the day so during the day, when no one is around, the lights adjust to promote growth and adjust back on later in the day for esthetic reasons. It's not a secret that 20,000K isn't great for growth but people like how their reefs look under it.

If he wants to prove anything, why doesn't he do a head to head growth comparison with other LEDs. It wouldn't take long to set up a long tank with multiple lights, that way all water parameters would be equal.

[jvision]

You don't think Finnex grow plants in a high-tech system? What's high-tech?

I had a 75gal tank with a single Ray II over it, CO2 injection, daily dose of ferts, growing Glosso UNDER the substrate. Not bright enough for you? Plants seemed to like it fine. I could harvest a 4"x4" section and it'd be filled in around 10 days later.

Of course, since Finnex no longer ships to Canada, the argument is moot; but, if you can find a similar light for the price, it'd be a good buy, IMO.

[Percilus]

I have been to plantedtank.com and by and large most people in the planted hobby wanting a high tech tank generally won't even use LED period. Most people think they are crap and will only use T5HO or halogen setups which is justified until very recently with results as far as LED lighting is concerned. As for high tech probably anything that runs a T5HO setup usually with around 2-4 lights running 4-8 watts per gallon. Most of your big names doing crazy high tech tanks are running T5HO still for a reason. Guys like that will run LED fixtures for their low to sometimes medium setups but never on their main displays. The articles I submitted there were one site worth. If you dig on google you get a sales pitch towards whatever amazon wants you to buy. Dig on bing or duckduckgo you get more science related links and if you go around to different forums you'll find they always seem to sway one way or another based on mostly opinion and I find on saltwater forums based on sponsorships the forum have been awarded. I'm not saying you guys didn't get great results with these fixtures. Planted tanks are more than just your equipment it's experience and skill as well. All I'm saying is the science seems to back a few models of new LED lines as better for plant growth especially at depths below 16 inches as opposed to others. Finnex units don't compete with the pur output of one of these lines from TMC and I think for the extra $50 it would cost me that's probably a good way for me to go so I can use this light later in a bigger setup instead of just being happy with my low-medium nano tank and finnex light. Also finnex offers 0 warranty that's a red flag for me. There are many opinions amongst aquarium professionals in fresh and salt and I have sought as many out as I could find. None use finnex unless budget is a concern.

As for the comment on reefers Ron I agree. I'm not them though and I give a poop about my carbon footprint. Also would always choose bred stock over wild caught. I mean if you pay attention in this world if the powers that be don't do something very soon there might be no corals left in the wild in 25 or so years. There may come a day where corals survive in our aquariums only for a time. Scary and sad but true.

I don't use any type of bulb in my house that isn't LED. The only lights in my home not running LED are the cheap stock ones that came with some of the tanks i purchased second hand. Hence my search for LED lights that can support life adequately in the hobby.

Again fellas I'm not saying I'm correct. I admit I have no experience with any product as yet. But I will always spend money on quality and a company who can back their product up with a suitable warranty. On some things in life it just isn't worth not paying the price for the best. Aquarium lighting falls under that category in my opinion. If I wasn't such a tree hugger I would just set up a T5HO setup and I wouldn't have even researched nearly as much on line. The internet is my only source for information in this hobby. I know no one in real life as of yet with experience in this hobby so I have to go with the science. Some of the stuff I found was a sales pitch towards TMC. But you can't fake the science. There may be better LED's out there than aquarays but not many. They are way more expensive than TMC's line and not much better in my opinion.

On that note I am currently trying to get a deal on a couple planted + 30 " Fugerays second hand from a guy on this forum right now. If i can get something that will work for a good price for a medium to low nano set up I'll be happy for now and buying second hand is always better than new for the planet So if that goes through I will have first hand experience with Finnex lights and my mini 400 aquaray is in the mail so we shall see!

[Ron]

There are plenty of LEDs that are more expensive and it's because the bells and whistles. I want all the extra colours that don't contribute to growth but make the tank more pleasing to the eye. I want control of all the colours independently so I can change the look if I feel like it.

How do you know Finnex lights don't compare in terms of PUR? I didn't see a summary of their units. I did notice they mentioned something about reds in the 620 to 780nm range being in the PUR range. The Finnex Planted+ have 660nm emitters, does that make them better?

You say you know no one with real life experience, 2 posters on this thread just shared their real life experience. I have no idea if glosso is a high light requiring plant but it seems Jason had no problem growing it. Maybe you should also look in to what hobbyist said about both PAR and PUR being outdated ways of looking at light.

[Percilus]

There are plenty of LEDs that are more expensive and it's because the bells and whistles. I want all the extra colours that don't contribute to growth but make the tank more pleasing to the eye. I want control of all the colours independently so I can change the look if I feel like it.

How do you know Finnex lights don't compare in terms of PUR? I didn't see a summary of their units. I did notice they mentioned something about reds in the 620 to 780nm range being in the PUR range. The Finnex Planted+ have 660nm emitters, does that make them better?

You say you know no one with real life experience, 2 posters on this thread just shared their real life experience. I have no idea if glosso is a high light requiring plant but it seems Jason had no problem growing it. Maybe you should also look in to what hobbyist said about both PAR and PUR being outdated ways of looking at light.

Maybe your correct I'm not sure to be honest. Why would Finnex not have approval to sell in Canada by our agencies? Why do they offer 0 warranty on their product? Maybe you should check into why as well. I never said a Finnex unit couldn't grow plants. Especially if used by an experienced planted tank guy like jvision. I do however think he would have better growth with an aquaray for less energy cost based on science. I disagree with the point of view discounting pur vs par for many reasons. Finnex have great red spectrum light it's too bad plants need more than just red light. I've also read many articles dissecting what the Finnex units do comparably with a TMC aquaray better or worse I just have not linked them because I have a good memory I did not bookmark every article or study which probably is around 100, or forum conversation I took part in on-line and don't have them handy. I have read enough to throw my money at TMC and not Finnex that I'm comfortable stating. Truth is for mid to high end led lights Finnex and TMC are your best choice at the moment in my opinion for the price. If your Canadian you might as well go TMC if you can afford it because you can't even get Finnex shipped to Canada any more. It's funny the difference in opinion in products between say a European forum and a North American one TMC and many other companies offer easy LED aesthetic options to improve the look of a tank that run cheaply. Most LED fixtures use a hell of a lot more energy than aquarays do to do the same or less. Which is why I'm partial to them. Aesthetic lighting is a lesser priority for me I admit. I know that puts me in the minority and that people don't care about energy costs etc but again I don't care what other people base their priorities on I care about lowest carbon footprint in all things I can muster. That's my priority and the one I care about. So please stop mentioning the better aesthetic look that may or may not come from higher watt LED's. I don't care how great they make a tank look if they waste energy.

My point in posting this information at all was to give someone like myself or even long time Finnex users another option other than higher energy costing LED lights or people running T8 or T5 set ups some food for thought. Especially if they do what we want them to do better. TMC is a mostly unknown company in NA for a lot of reasons and I'm tired of everyone defaulting to Finnex lights in NA when TMC in my opinion for a bit more cost are a better option especially for someone in Alberta right now. Just like I want everyone to say buy organic only food and stop supporting over seas manufacturing etc. Or as you brought up stop buying wild salt water stock.

Most will choose the cheapest mid light any ways which is probably Finnex at the moment for your average consumer. I still want them to know about TMC aquaray lines aswell though as they are a more energy efficient light if nothing else.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Percilus

[Ron]

Finnex doesn't have CSA approval and have no intention or desire to obtain it, Canada just isn't a big enough market. When they were being sold here, the dealer took care of any problems people had with the lights so saying they had 0 warranty is a lie.

I'm not a Finnex fan and I really don't care what you buy, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I bought a $700 fixture to grow biofilm on my 35 gallon shrimp tank. It might take a little more juice but I think I've made up for it in my high efficiency home.

[Percilus]

Finnex doesn't have CSA approval and have no intention or desire to obtain it, Canada just isn't a big enough market. When they were being sold here, the dealer took care of any problems people had with the lights so saying they had 0 warranty is a lie.

I'm not a Finnex fan and I really don't care what you buy, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I bought a $700 fixture to grow biofilm on my 35 gallon shrimp tank. It might take a little more juice but I think I've made up for it in my high efficiency home.

Which light do you have? They have a 1 year warranty. Which basically says your poop out of luck because something built badly and cheaply will generally still last for at least a year. That being said LED power supply's are not reliable things and TMC only covers the aquaray power supply for only a year which is also crap. But atleast the rest is covered for 5 years. That's the hard stuff to deal with power supply is whatever if your even semi proficient at diy.

[Percilus]

Any ways this is my last post here unless someone asks me something. My goal was to put the brand of lights out there. Before someone new like me would have defaulted to trying to somehow purchase Finnex or most likely just going T8 or T5 cfl or HO now they will also see this here. Agree disagree like you said it's just a matter of ones priorities haha.

[Ron]

Finnex doesn't have CSA approval and have no intention or desire to obtain it, Canada just isn't a big enough market. When they were being sold here, the dealer took care of any problems people had with the lights so saying they had 0 warranty is a lie.

I'm not a Finnex fan and I really don't care what you buy, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I bought a $700 fixture to grow biofilm on my 35 gallon shrimp tank. It might take a little more juice but I think I've made up for it in my high efficiency home.

Which light do you have? They have a 1 year warranty. Which basically says your poop out of luck because something built badly and cheaply will generally still last for at least a year. That being said LED power supply's are not reliable things and TMC only covers the aquaray power supply for only a year which is also crap. But atleast the rest is covered for 5 years. That's the hard stuff to deal with power supply is whatever if your even semi proficient at diy.

I have an AI Hydra 52. Do you own a flat screen? What kind of warranty came with that? I still have my first Panasonic Plasma which only came with a 1 year warranty and it's going on 7 or 8 years now. Just because it has a one year warranty doesn't mean it gonna break on day 366. I would expect a no frills light to last longer, less options with less things to go wrong, kinda like a flashlight.

[Percilus]

Finnex doesn't have CSA approval and have no intention or desire to obtain it, Canada just isn't a big enough market. When they were being sold here, the dealer took care of any problems people had with the lights so saying they had 0 warranty is a lie.

I'm not a Finnex fan and I really don't care what you buy, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I bought a $700 fixture to grow biofilm on my 35 gallon shrimp tank. It might take a little more juice but I think I've made up for it in my high efficiency home.

Which light do you have? They have a 1 year warranty. Which basically says your poop out of luck because something built badly and cheaply will generally still last for at least a year. That being said LED power supply's are not reliable things and TMC only covers the aquaray power supply for only a year which is also crap. But atleast the rest is covered for 5 years. That's the hard stuff to deal with power supply is whatever if your even semi proficient at diy.

I have an AI Hydra 52. Do you own a flat screen? What kind of warranty came with that? I still have my first Panasonic Plasma which only came with a 1 year warranty and it's going on 7 or 8 years now. Just because it has a one year warranty doesn't mean it gonna break on day 366. I would expect a no frills light to last longer, less options with less things to go wrong, kinda like a flashlight.

It's not that side of the coin I choose to look at regarding warranties. I look at it like if a company wants to guarantee me their product is going to function for at least 5 years by offering me that warranty. It tells me that company believes in the parts and construction of the appliance enough to reasonably believe that on average the product will last for that 5 years and not cost the company much hit on it's bottom line in warranty claims. A 1 year warranty paints a much different picture.

[fishclubgirl]

As for warranties, Oliver Knott(google him) mentioned that leds are here to stay but the main concern is how long the light is good for. As this is new technology, most of the lights have not been running for 5 years so hence the shorter warranty. I'm sure as they streamline the lights, the warranties will improve and the prices will drop. My suggestion is to visit some of the AA members tanks with leds to see how well they grow plants rather than getting info off the internet. Seeing is believing!!