Hybrid Fish

[Mighty Prawn]

So, what's the deal with hybrid fish like Flowerhorns and "Blood" Parrot's. Are those the only 2 hybrid's available?

Is it that the two fish are the only one's that just happen to be possible to occur through hybrid breeding? Or are they the only 2 that seem to produce an obvious hybrid?

Or is it that the parents just happen to be commonly housed together due to compatibility and it started out as a n accident?

-Hideo

[Toirtis]

Lots of hybrids out there....mbuna are the most commonly hybridised, but guppies+mollies ('Muppies'), swords and platies, assorted catfish (lots of corydoras, RTC+TSNs='leopard catfish')...the list goes on and on.

Many accidental, many more, sadly, intentional.

[Vallisneria]

There are tons of hybrids out there, thats why its so important to research and know what your fish should look like before you buy.

With africans its a common problem as most species will interbreed. I remember seeing a website that had some weird combinations on it like julie/calvus and other weird ones.

My personal weird hybrid i've ever produced(not on purpose though) was a Placidochromis electra/ Labidochromis perlmutt. Whoever said Haps and Mbuna can't breed together was wrong :shock:

[skinless]

CA/SA cichlids will crossbreed. many,many variants out there ill bet, but not all will look decent and most be will be infertile though not always the case. examples like RD x TEX, or CON x SAL. flowerhorns have been bred huge overseas for years now...the exact recipe is still an industry secret that is always changing as new "donors" are being added to create the newest ($$) strains. but it would/could include;

midas/rd, trimac, synspilum, festae(?), and other large, mean cichlids.

i've briefly owned a FH who looked more trimac than anything. my midas, from petsmart, is much more likely to really be a midas/red devil cross than anything else. good chance that is the case with most of those two purchased. the midas/red devil cross is extemely common.

i've heard/read that many FH are born without tails and have to be culled.

[Devon]

CA/SA cichlids will crossbreed. many,many variants out there ill bet, but not all will look decent and most be will be infertile though not always the case. examples like RD x TEX, or CON x SAL. flowerhorns have been bred huge overseas for years now...the exact recipe is still an industry secret that is always changing as new "donors" are being added to create the newest ($$) strains. but it would/could include;

midas/rd, trimac, synspilum, festae(?), and other large, mean cichlids.

i've briefly owned a FH who looked more trimac than anything. my midas, from petsmart, is much more likely to really be a midas/red devil cross than anything else. good chance that is the case with most of those two purchased. the midas/red devil cross is extemely common.

i've heard/read that many FH are born without tails and have to be culled.

I work at Petsmart and we have some red devils that look quite midas looking to me 0_o Nobody will buy them.

I've seen muppies, and then "cotton Candy" parrots, dyed blood parrots. And the Jellybeans, which are smaller? I think that some of the "mixed" african cichlids we get in at Petsmart are hybrids too.

I disagree with breeding them for all of the regular reasons, though I have three blood parrot cast offs from the southside A&B Sound, and even though they can't close their mouths all the way, the big one can still break the skin. 0_o

[Froggie]

Whoever said Haps and Mbuna can't breed together was wrong :shock:

No one! That's where the OB Aulonocara comes from.

[Vallisneria]

Whoever said Haps and Mbuna can't breed together was wrong :shock:

No one! That's where the OB Aulonocara comes from.

Actually i've seen quite a few posts on cichlif-forum stating that exact thing. That mbuna and peacocks have a "possibility" to cross breed but haps and mbuna won't. I don't believe it myself but i see it being posted all the time on the internet. Cross breeding is far more prevalent then some people tend to believe. Or they believe that all hybrid fish are sterile, which defiantely isn't the case with most hybrid african cichlids.

[RD.]

That mbuna and peacocks have a "possibility" to cross breed but haps and mbuna won't.

A classic example of why one should never believe everything that they read on the internet, least of all on CF. http://burnel.club.fr/horreur_hybrides.htm

[Vallisneria]

Thank RD, that is the site I was thinking of. Those are some freaky fish :shock:

I know people shouldn't believe everything they read, but the myths about hybrids keep getting passed along as fact. So you need to be very careful when reading anything online.

[midgetwaiter]

The typical hybrid debate comes down to 2 points of view.

1) Natural is better, don't mess with it.

It doesn't take long to reduce this argument to ashes. Mankind has been hybridizing plants and animals for thousands of years and we are not going to stop any time soon. There are records from ancient Egypt that specifically mention importing grain from Mesopotamia to hybridize with the local varieties. There does not exist, anywhere in the world, a naturally occurring wheat species under cultivation.

Okay so you want better cold resistance in your wheat, at least that is a good reason, people hybridize fish for LOOKS.

Please refer to the "dog", a commonly kept pet all over the world. Anyone want to rid the world of hybridized dog breeds? Go to any reptile show and check out what some of the snake and gecko colour morphs are trading for. There are entire industries devoted to doing strange things with guppies, goldfish and bettas, none of the varieties of those you find for sale in the LFS ever exited in nature.

I too would love to be able to get my hands on some wild swordtails. I am all too aware of some of the nasty things done with line breeding, like the tail-less parrots mentioned above and don't like it one bit. You have to consider that domesticating and hybridizing animals has been part of our culture since we came down from the trees. It is not going to change.

2) I want to be sure I am getting clean stock so I may continue my extensive breeding program and eventually take over the world.

This is pretty much the cichlid enthusiasts specific view point. It's kind of a recent thing and I think reflects cultural changes through the last generation, natural is often perceived as better. I can't think of many other say "segments" of the hobby where this view has been the path, probably because the chichlid breeding part of the hobby is one of the newest. Even some cichlid species that are heavily hybridized but have been around longer like angels, discus or rams don't take the scorn people give parrots and such.

I'm not a cichlid guy and have never been so I don't really understand. I can see the concern if you are trying to maintain a wild type line and get a hybridized fish into the fix without your knowing. That's fine, even if you will have to have constant collection to refresh bloodlines. I don't get where that jumps to the "exterminate all hybrids" meme though. I mean if that is how you feel that's fine but if you aren't also calling for the extermination of grandma's cute little pomeranian cross then you are being intellectually dishonest at best.

[FishGeek]

Speaking of weird hybrids. This takes the cake. When a couple of my OB peacocks were spawning, A male Petrichromis Trewevasae made his way into the action, 2 of the young stripped had definate petrichormis traits. I kept them as a curiosity, now they are 2" and are actually kinda nice. I'm glad I kept them, now I want to see if they are actually fertile. Never thought that fish from 2 different lakes would crossbreed like that.