rudy Posted August 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 I will try the 3mm this week and see if it changes anything. Any advise on how much I should feed them? As the food gets smaller so does my perception of giving them enough I will hopefully get some pics tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) While I haven't seen this tank, I'm assuming like most rays they aren't overly active in a typical aquarium. I think of NLS as a high octane fuel, with the TherA being a SUPER high octane fuel. In my experience species that have high energy requirements do very well on the TherA, but just like any food, you still have to monitor the amount that you feed. I have zero experience with feeding rays, but I suspect that even though you reduced the amount that you were feeding, they were still receiving far more nutrients than they could assimilate properly. (hence the diarrhea) With the 3mm Large Fish formula it will be more forgiving if you overfeed, but I would still start them off at approx 1/2 of the amount that you were using when feeding the Hikari. You can always increase the feed amount down the road if you feel the need. At this point it might even be a good idea to give them a day or two of fasting, to allow their innards a chance to regroup. In the tank at Gold's those fish could barely move (if these are the rays that I'm thinking of?) so they wouldn't have required very much food to meet their overall energy requirements. I would think that in approx 1-2 weeks you'll notice a big change in their waste output. Edited August 16, 2006 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 I spoke to Pablo today & the first thing he asked was "how much is he feeding???" ....... which I couldn't answer as you haven't supplied me with that info. In his opinion the only thing that this could be from is overfeeding, especially with a carnivore such as a ray. He's fed that formula to thousands of fish, and a few hundred species, including rays, and never seen anything like what you are describing. Not even with fish classified as strict herbivores such as tropheus. While I haven't fed the TherA formula to thousands of fish, or hundreds of different species, my experience has been the same. Even strict herbivores have never had any issue with it. Actually it's been quite the opposite, the amount of fecal waste was far less than the other brands that I've used over the years. I realize that no one wants to hear that they don't understand how much (or little) food their fish require, but you'd be amazed at the number of people who do in fact tend to overfeed when using NLS. I'm not trying to convince you to continue feeding NLS, if you would prefer to go back to using a food with a 17% ash content, that's certainly your prerogative. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted August 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Pics 222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted August 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) As far as how much I feed I have not counted pellets, but it is a quarter hand full now. Rays are about the easiest animal to tell whether you feed them or not as they store it will show if not enough in their tail. Edited August 16, 2006 by rudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 (edited) Humour me & count how many 6mm pellets are in your 1/4 handful. And do you feed them every day? Edited August 16, 2006 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted August 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 o.k. approximately 70-80 and yes I feed daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 OMG! 70-80 6mm pellets for two rays? Ok, then without a doubt overfeeding is your problem, and considering how much you were initially feeding these rays (approx 3 times this amount!) no wonder they're producing so much waste. What goes in, must come out. It's great food, but it's not 100% digestible. lol 15 pellets for each fish, fed daily, should be more than adequate for rays this size kept in captivity. That's where you should have started, not at 100+ pellets for each fish. You can always up the amount from 15 in a few weeks if you feel they require a bit more, but that should give you a very good starting point. BTW - Pablo concurs with the info above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 OMG! 70-80 6mm pellets for two rays? Ok, then without a doubt overfeeding is your problem, and considering how much you were initially feeding these rays (approx 3 times this amount!) no wonder they're producing so much waste. What goes in, must come out. It's great food, but it's not 100% digestible. lol 15 pellets for each fish, fed daily, should be more than adequate for rays this size kept in captivity. That's where you should have started, not at 100+ pellets for each fish. You can always up the amount from 15 in a few weeks if you feel they require a bit more, but that should give you a very good starting point. BTW - Pablo concurs with the info above. Quite honestly Neil I have no idea who Pablo is, but I am appreciative. If there is a way to keep the cost down of feeding my rays I will try to work with NLS. Thanks for the help and I will let you know how it goes. :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 LOL, sorry, Pablo Tepoot is the creator of NLS food. You can read more about him in the following article that I wrote. It used to be on cichlid-forum, but they yanked it when he yanked his sponsorship last year. :ph43r: http://www.cichlid-food-canada.com/article.html Pablo has been importing, breeding, and selling fish for approx 35 years. At one time (approx 1970) he was one of the largest saltwater importers in the USA. He also raised & bred Discus back in the late 60's, early 70's. In approx the mid 70's Pablo & his wife settled in Homestead Florida & began specializing in African cichlids. Pablo currently maintains ...... 120 ponds (approximately 30,000 gal. each), 1500 concrete vats (250gal.-500gal. each) and 1,000 40 gal. fry aquariums on 2 five acre farms. His real passion is with marine fish, and the following link shows one of his SW tanks, with some of these fish now being 8 yrs of age. http://www.newlife.ipbhost.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66 You can also contact him directly with any questions via the forum linked to above. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmguy Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 very nice article neil i have been useing nls excluseively now for a year and its amazeing the diffrence this stuff has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Thanks, and I'm glad to hear that it's working out well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudy Posted September 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Well unfortunately this is not working.... Just less diarhea with the fewer pellets I give them. I am going to start feeding shrimp and such. Damnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Did you try switching them off of the TherA, and placing them on the Large Fish formula? Keep in mind that these fish were being overfed by massive amounts, with a very potent formula, for what sounds like an extended period of time, so they may simply need a chance to let their innards settle, as in not feeding them at all for a few days. Then place them on a restricted diet, of a less potent formula, as in not TherA. I'm not too sure why you would give up on pellet foods at this stage of the game, but that's your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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