New 15g tank

[jimmyhg]

Hey guys I'm new to the forum and I have a 15 gal non-planted tank which I'm currently fishless cycling. I had fish when I was a kid 15 years ago and I'm getting back into it. I have learned lots of new stuff from forums/sites about proper stocking/cycling ect. I look back at how things were when I was young and realize how brutal things were back then with the lack of information (internet).

I am currenlty deciding what to stock the tank with when its done cycling. I have read about several ways of calculating fish load (total inches, grams/Liter, and surface area). I don't want to over load this tank but would like to have a couple schools. I was thinking about this combo:

6 neon tetras

6 hengeli rasboras or zebra danios

-I am worried about the zebra danios bothering the tetras and whether the danios are too big fully grown.

1 or 2 spotted cory

1 or 2 otto (when algae starts to grow).

Also I'm in Calgary and I am aware of the large selection of Fish stores. I feel wary of purchasing fish from a place like Walmart of course but wonder about the quality of fish at others. Do the chains like petland/petsmart/petcetera sell good fish or should I go to a place like Riverfront or Pisces.

Your opinions and advise would be apreciated.

Thanks

Edited November 2, 2006 by jimmyhg

[FishEdGirl]

Sounds like you're aiming at an inch of fish per gallon of water.

Remember when you're stocking that the decorations you place in your tank will displace the water and decrease the actual gallon amount. Your 15G doesn't actually have fifteen gallons of water with substrate and decorations, so stock accordingly.

IMNSHO you're way overstocked with that list (but then, I tend to stock conservatively in non-planted tanks).

Danios - not a good idea for a 15G tank. Not because of their size, but because they are incredibly active and need a lot of room for swimming.

You could do neons with Endler's livebearers and an otto. I have a similar setup in a 10G planted tank and it is incredibly colourful and lively.

I don't know anything about R. hengeli (are they available here?)...so I can't help you out there.

But it's always nice to hear that someone is using the fishless cycling method

Hey guys I'm new to the forum and I have a 15 gal non-planted tank which I'm currently fishless cycling. I had fish when I was a kid 15 years ago and I'm getting back into it. I have learned lots of new stuff from forums/sites about proper stocking/cycling ect. I look back at how things were when I was young and realize how brutal things were back then with the lack of information (internet).

I am currenlty deciding what to stock the tank with when its done cycling. I have read about several ways of calculating fish load (total inches, grams/Liter, and surface area). I don't want to over load this tank but would like to have a couple schools. I was thinking about this combo:

6 neon tetras

6 hengeli rasboras or zebra danios

-I am worried about the zebra danios bothering the tetras and whether the danios are too big fully grown.

1 or 2 spotted cory

1 or 2 otto (when algae starts to grow).

Also I'm in Calgary and I am aware of the large selection of Fish stores. I feel wary of purchasing fish from a place like Walmart of course but wonder about the quality of fish at others. Do the chains like petland/petsmart/petcetera sell good fish or should I go to a place like Riverfront or Pisces.

Your opinions and advise would be apreciated.

Thanks

[jimmyhg]

You could do neons with Endler's livebearers and an otto. I have a similar setup in a 10G planted tank and it is incredibly colourful and lively.

I don't know anything about R. hengeli (are they available here?)...so I can't help you out there.

Good point about the availability. I don't know the answer to that. I may have to scrap that idea for that reason. The reason I thought of the hengeli rasbora is they are similar to the heteromorpha but smaller/slimer (3cm) so less impact on the tank. I think I will shy away from the danios though. I looked up the Edler's livebearers you suggested and I think they would be a good alternative. Very colorfull. Since they are not a schooling fish I would not need that many.

Thanks for your advise FishEdGirl.

[little sea]

Nice to meet you, Sir. If you want Rasbora hengli, I've got some coming in next week (if you don't find them elsewhere). I'm at Elite Aquatics so please fell free to call and ask (253-8123).

Cheers

[FishEdGirl]

Oddly enough, my endlers actually school with my neons.

Oh, I should mention too, make sure that you only get male endlers (males are colourful, females are generally more of a silver) unless you want to have eleventy-million baby endlers on your hands. These guys are worse than rabbits (I have avoided this phenomenon myself). But they are a lot of fun to watch; full of character for such small fish!

Male Endler's don't even reach an inch in size so you could have several of them.

What do hengeli rasbora look like? Maybe they would make an even better impact with the colours of the Endlers?

Good point about the availability. I don't know the answer to that. I may have to scrap that idea for that reason. The reason I thought of the hengeli rasbora is they are similar to the heteromorpha but smaller/slimer (3cm) so less impact on the tank. I think I will shy away from the danios though. I looked up the Edler's livebearers you suggested and I think they would be a good alternative. Very colorfull. Since they are not a schooling fish I would not need that many.

Thanks for your advise FishEdGirl.

[jvision]

If you want this many fish, then you'll have to compensate with filtration. To be honest, I'm not that conservative with stocking levels - as long as I know there's enough filtration. A HOB (like Aquaclear) + a small Canister is not too much, IMO.

When you over filter your tank, you can stock a bit more - just look at what African Cichlid keepers do!

If you do decide to add Corys to the mix, go with at least 4, preferably 6+. And, Ottos do best when kept in at least pairs - I had 1 for a while... he was doing alright, but when I added a 2nd, they both perked right up!

I'm sure you'll soon want to upgrade to a larger, and more tanks - it a desease we all catch... I think it's a contageon that has infected this whole site.

Have fish, have fun!! :thumbs:

Hey guys I'm new to the forum and I have a 15 gal non-planted tank which I'm currently fishless cycling. I had fish when I was a kid 15 years ago and I'm getting back into it. I have learned lots of new stuff from forums/sites about proper stocking/cycling ect. I look back at how things were when I was young and realize how brutal things were back then with the lack of information (internet).

I am currenlty deciding what to stock the tank with when its done cycling. I have read about several ways of calculating fish load (total inches, grams/Liter, and surface area). I don't want to over load this tank but would like to have a couple schools. I was thinking about this combo:

6 neon tetras

6 hengeli rasboras or zebra danios

-I am worried about the zebra danios bothering the tetras and whether the danios are too big fully grown.

1 or 2 spotted cory

1 or 2 otto (when algae starts to grow).

Also I'm in Calgary and I am aware of the large selection of Fish stores. I feel wary of purchasing fish from a place like Walmart of course but wonder about the quality of fish at others. Do the chains like petland/petsmart/petcetera sell good fish or should I go to a place like Riverfront or Pisces.

Your opinions and advise would be apreciated.

Thanks

[Vallisneria]

I don't know anything about R. hengeli (are they available here?)...so I can't help you out there.

I was just at Nature's cornerstore tonight and they had some Rasbora hengeli and some rasbora espei

[jimmyhg]

What do hengeli rasbora look like? Maybe they would make an even better impact with the colours of the Endlers?

Based on what I found they look like Harlequin rasbora (hetamorpha) exept they are smaller (less bio load) and less black and more orange. I was thinking about these because they are orange/black and they neons would be red/blue giving me some varied colors. Now that I know they are available they remain as a possibility of course the Endlers would bring lots of colors to the party too.

If you want this many fish, then you'll have to compensate with filtration. To be honest, I'm not that conservative with stocking levels - as long as I know there's enough filtration. A HOB (like Aquaclear) + a small Canister is not too much, IMO.

When you over filter your tank, you can stock a bit more - just look at what African Cichlid keepers do!

If you do decide to add Corys to the mix, go with at least 4, preferably 6+. And, Ottos do best when kept in at least pairs - I had 1 for a while... he was doing alright, but when I added a 2nd, they both perked right up!

I'm sure you'll soon want to upgrade to a larger, and more tanks - it a desease we all catch... I think it's a contageon that has infected this whole site.

Have fish, have fun!! :thumbs:

Thanks, I think at this point I think I will go with two ottos and leave to cory's out (at least for now). I have and aquaclear 30 on the tank but at this point don't want to add another filter. I hope for my wallets sake that the "disease" you describe doesn't catch on too quick.

My revised stock list is now

5 neon tetra

5 hengeli rasbora or some endlers instead

2 ottos (later)

I am also now looking into adding a java fern as it will accept low light and I just need a rock or some driftwood for it to live on.

[Willfishguy]

My revised stock list is now

5 neon tetra

5 hengeli rasbora or some endlers instead

2 ottos (later)

I am also now looking into adding a java fern as it will accept low light and I just need a rock or some driftwood for it to live on.

Do keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite as it takes a good six months for a new tank to mature. I'd round up the the tetras and rasboras/guppies to six and only add one species at a time, waiting another two weeks before adding the next batch.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Willfishguy

[Vallisneria]

Sounds good:)

[FishEdGirl]

My revised stock list is now

5 neon tetra

5 hengeli rasbora or some endlers instead

2 ottos (later)

I am also now looking into adding a java fern as it will accept low light and I just need a rock or some driftwood for it to live on.

You are going to have a fantastic little set-up there

If you want to add your full fish load you can spike the ammonia a couple of times after you've cycled (if you're using ammonium chloride, that is). Your bio-load isn't heavy, so you wouldn't have to spike it very high. If you do this, watch your pH.

'Course if you add the java fern you can skip that step. Anubias nana petite looks awesome on driftwood and does very well in low light if you want some variation.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress

Edited November 4, 2006 by FishEdGirl

[jimmyhg]

Waiting for the tank to cycle is kinda painfull. Its day 12 of the cycle and I'm currently reading .3 mg/L on the nitrite test so I know the cycle is in progess and I have at least some bacteria.

[Shai]

Hi Jimmy, welcome to the board!

You can add many more plants to your tank than just a single java fern. Anubias nana and anubias afzelli are great plants that also only need low-light. You don't *have* to attach them to wood; mine are growing just fine in the gravel. Wisteria is another plant you should consider for the early days of your tank (like Willfishguy said, even after you cycle, your tank will still need time to mature). It grows very fast and will do a lot to help keep nitrates in check while the fern is establishing itself (java fern grows slowly). You'll have to prune it or it will overrun the tank (a pair of scissors when you change the water works well). Wisteria is cheap; just get one (a big one), cut it in half, and stick it in the gravel. It'll do the rest.

Also I'm in Calgary and I am aware of the large selection of Fish stores. I feel wary of purchasing fish from a place like Walmart of course but wonder about the quality of fish at others. Do the chains like petland/petsmart/petcetera sell good fish or should I go to a place like Riverfront or Pisces.

: ) I live in Calgary also. Personally, I wouldn't ever buy any fish from Petcetera. The two locations in the NW that I have visited always look dirty (the stores in general) and not well-maintained. The fish are often very badly mislabelled and I've seen dead specimens that look like they've been there a while. I have purchased equipment there as they sometimes have had better prices than elsewhere, but that's about it.

Pisces is probably my favorite LFS. Most of my plants and equipment have come from there and I think the staff are more knowledgable than most. The fish selection is great but be prepared to pay a little more than other places.

Riverfront is good, too, also with knowledgable staff. I got my shrimp from there and I'll be going back for more plus some bogwood and snails in the near future. Have you been there before? The location is kind of a bummer unless you already live close to downtown (which I don't). Be prepared to not leave anything valuable in your car when you park.

I frequent the Petland in Crowfoot quite a lot, too. I like this location; most of my fish came from there. It's hard to find staff in the fish area sometimes but if you have the patience, their specimens have all been healthy and the prices not too bad. The Petland inside Market Mall is really limited in comparison; the only fish I've ever purchased there was a half-moon betta of exceptional turquoise color. The staff at the mall location are not knowledgable by far; I've overheard them recommending things to other customers that made my skin crawl.

I've never shopped at Petsmart myself so someone else can comment on that. Another place I have been is the pet store in the Sunnyside Garden Center off Highway 1 and 29 Ave NW. My pandas came from there. The selection of fish is very small but they were the best-priced on the pandas anywhere in the city that I could find.

Wal-Mart is iffy, usually a judgment call. The Wal-Mart at Northland is definitely a no-no in my book; I've been in one week to see they have a fully-stocked fish section and the next week the area is bone dry, all the fish gone, the tanks covered in black hard sludge. Yuck. The Wal-Mart up at Royal Oak is *much* nicer (probably because it's newer). The tanks so far always look clean, not too many dead fish just lying around, and they've had some specimens I haven't always seen at other locations.

Have fun with your new tank!

[jimmyhg]

Thanks for the plant suggestions Shai. I might just add more than one plant to the tank now. Your 10g tank in your sig sounds pretty cool. Not far off from the direction I seem to be heading. I assume it would be ok to add plants before the cycle is complete so at least I can do something with the tank other than test the water. I hope your 55g works out alright too.

As far as LFS stores go I would have to agree with you as pisces still seems to be my favorite. Its surprising how little that place has changed since I last had fish almost 15 years ago (when I was a kid). They have lots of plants and a great selection of fish. They are also one of the closest. Its funny you mentioned Northland Walmart because I was there recently and the tanks were dirty and dry with no fish. I have never been to Royal Oak. I also never knew about Riverfront until I found these forums so I stopped by to take a look last week. There still are some places like elite aquatics (mentioned above) that I haven't visited but I will stop by as my work takes me to various locations over the city. I had no idea there was a place in the sunnyside either. Thanks for your LFS info Shai.

[Shai]

Thanks for the plant suggestions Shai. I might just add more than one plant to the tank now. Your 10g tank in your sig sounds pretty cool. Not far off from the direction I seem to be heading.

You're welcome! Yeah, I've had a lot of fun with my 10g. If you're curious to see what yours can look like fully planted, I posted some photos of my tank and its inhabitants in this thread.

I assume it would be ok to add plants before the cycle is complete so at least I can do something with the tank other than test the water.

Certainly! After you have some readings for nitrate, put the plants in. They will use the nitrate as food, helping to reduce the levels. You might also be interested in this article, which describes a "silent cycling" method. A 15g tank is probably still too small to use this method exclusively, but you can try to combine some of these techniques with the regular fishless cycle and shorten the overall waiting time. I did this myself and it worked well.

I hope your 55g works out alright too.

Thanks, me too! Still trying to figure out the stocking, haven't had a whole lot of definitive feedback in that area yet. : ) I have lots of time though, the tank is still bone dry! (Being patient is the hard part.)

They have lots of plants and a great selection of fish.

Yes indeed. All of my plants have come from Pisces. Theirs look healthier than other stores. They have a wider selection too and it's easier to pick the plants out. In places like Petcetera, the plants are all jammed into one tank and it's nearly impossible to know what you're looking at. (Last time I was at Riverfront, their plants were the same way.)

There still are some places like elite aquatics

I haven't been there yet either. I live in the NW so going to the southern parts of the city is rare. But one of these days!

Keep us updated on the progress of your tank!

Edited November 5, 2006 by Shai