Crossbreedophilia

[dunl]

PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals?

[Willfishguy]

PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals?

Hahaha... I have no problem with PETA, but that is funny.

[dunl]

We all needed a laugh.

[midgetwaiter]

Too literal, of course I am aware these thing exist.

So what exactly were you looking for with that request then?

Usually I am the one being pedantic, this is refreshing. It was exactly a request, more like rhetorical device used to enforce the point I was trying to make.

My point is this, you take several common plants and animals someone comes in contact with regularly, most of which are hybridized in some manner and that they accept without thinking about. You then compare it what they say about some hybrid aquarium fish and you have a breakdown of logic. What makes the fish so special?

Chris talked about the tomatoes he grows, great that he is interested in doing this but given his description you have to admit they'd be a cruddy solution to a put a slice of something on my sandwich problem. If somebody wants to maintain a line of fish in the same manner that's fine but maybe some hybrids are a better solution to the pretty, interesting fish for my aquarium problem. Accepting one situation and using the "natural is the only way to go" rhetoric that some people use in this debate for another is, IMO, hypocrisy. You have the right to maintain a pure strain just like I have the right to enjoy a blood parrot.

A poster supporting the "culling" of people who breed parrots is pretty silly and it's not like he's the only person I have ever seen do that. I'm saying, that argument is a pile of poop and this is why.

[scrubby]

i think as long as nature takes it course whats the big deal ..you put 2 different things together and get something whats the big hype :well: our am i just not understanding

[dunl]

My point is this, you take several common plants and animals someone comes in contact with regularly, most of which are hybridized in some manner and that they accept without thinking about. You then compare it what they say about some hybrid aquarium fish and you have a breakdown of logic. What makes the fish so special?

Because you are talking more in terms of domestication with your examples than hybridisation. I'm not aware of what dogs were crossed with to produce dogs, nor what cats were crossed with to produce cats?

Just once, it'd be nice to see one of these threads without someone bringing up examples of a single species like cats, dogs, or the African American and Caucasian couple they know as examples of hybrids. They're all still a single species.

Edited November 4, 2006 by dunl

[scrubby]

My point is this, you take several common plants and animals someone comes in contact with regularly, most of which are hybridized in some manner and that they accept without thinking about. You then compare it what they say about some hybrid aquarium fish and you have a breakdown of logic. What makes the fish so special?

Because you are talking more in terms of domestication with your examples than hybridisation. I'm not aware of what dogs were crossed with to produce dogs, nor what cats were crossed with to produce cats?

Just once, it'd be nice to see one of these threads without someone bringing up examples of a single species like cats, dogs, or the African American and Caucasian couple they know as examples of hybrids. They're all still a single species.

seems all the same fish ,cows, dogs , horse, cats ,,people its only f----ed up when you start doing artificial stuff making little frankenstien eg.great white shark+ guppy

[Qattarra]

I agree most every living thing has evolved and usually has crossed with other similars to come up stronger faster and better able to survive. The mad scientist stuff that occurs in the name of the oh holy buck is the stuff that tends to get people hot under the collar. Things like breeding animals with 3inch legs because they are "new" and "unusual" and can be sold as "oddities". Go to those poor goldfishes with those bubble eyes, do they get severe infections when they are torn?

Being a gardener, my personal pet pieve is Monsanto, yes the creators of Roundup ready canola. They created this so the farmer can add tons of their weedkiller to the fields without killing the canola. Wind drift kills everything in the neighbours' fields though, and any reseeding that occurs no matter where is the sole ownership of Monsanto. Therefore if you don't hold liscence to grow Their seed they can collect your crop and sue you for having it. And yes there are cases in courts right now where one farmers' crop has reseeded itself into another's field and that farmer is now in court aggainst this huge company.

These kind of crops are becomming dominent. There are many crops that are nearly exclusively grown because they are easier to pick mechanicly, are desease resistent and very uniform in growth. They are usually near flavourless and more and more less nutricious, but they make money. Mother nature does addapt and will. So big question what happens when the bugs addapt and now devistate these super crops? Diversity will always be the answer but who has it?

[sharon]

It is a very sensitive subject. In nature there is some hybridization but on the whole most species only propagate with their own. Mother nature allows only the strong ones to survive. In the wild when hybridization occurs, it is more of a fluke, and usually does not fit in the balance of that ecosystem and generally dies off.

When people play with it to create a new species, we are playing at being God, and need to step lightly and think about what we are doing.

If we are hybridizing fish for example, we need to think about the consequenses. Are these fish going to be able to survive a healthy life, or will the species mixture create problems. They are after all a living creature..It is important that if they are given or sold to anyone, that they are made aware of the hybridization. Most important is that they are never introduced back into the wild, creating havoc with our ecosystem.

[a1foxes]

I think alot of what I am reading is some confusion around terms and

definitions. I'm not going to look in a dictionary cause I don't have one

handy, but, the term crossbred is used typically where you are breeding

to animals of the same species, just different breeds within that species.

Dogs, horses, etc- happens all the time. I must say breeding labs with

poodles seem really stupid considering the difference in structure and

traits, but there are alot of people who can't think about the long term

health implications of their 'experiement'. Hybridization is used similarly

to crossbreeding- generally refers to breeding of 2 animals within the

same genus, as already stated nature does it all the time. Its when you

take 2 different species that might not procreate on their own, and 'make'

a whole new species, that I do start to wonder, and thats what people

often worry about. They think, if its fish now, what will it be later- people

and chimps? An example, wolfs, dog, coyotes etc are all the same genus,

just different sub-species. Wolfs and dogs are close enough genetically

that it happens naturally, but it's human intervention that typically keeps

the offspring alive. Coyote and dogs can breed, but its not desirable to

us or to nature, so they tend to die off. The average person doesnt

think about chromosonal differences. People think all rabbits are the

same and can be bred together- BIG myth. Domestic rabbits today

are an entirely different genus than north american wild rabbits and

jackrabbits, they are chromosonally incompatible and while many have

tried nothing, even scientifically, has been successful. There are breeds

of domestic rabbit that resemble these other species, perhaps the source

of the confusion?

When we talk about fish, I admit I'm not as well versed there as I am

with mammals in general, but the basic things like chromosones remain.

Species like cichlids, some will breed with others than their own, and a

hybrid is created. Its not so bad when it works well, but not so nice

things can happen as well. As long as we are not introducing them back

into the ecosystem, then the impact is limited to our aquariums. Yep, its

an ethics thing, and that comes down to personal beliefs and comfort

levels. One theory I've heard, is that if the 'hybrids' are not sterile and

will breed amongst themselves once created, then chromosonally it works

so why not? Any ' new' species/hybrid that is sterile, well, personally that

to me means incompatible so I wouldnt do it. Thats just my opinion, and

I certainly wouldnt tell someone else that having them was wrong. Just

doesnt work for me! Its fine to explain to someone why you don't

agree, but let them make their own decision.

[scrubby]

oh yeah as for people sell dogs mixed with wolves -roll- unless the person has pics i find it impossible to understand this a wolf would kill a dog b4 it would mate with one a malmute looks similar to a wolf but its a dog which easly confused with a wolf i seen this pop up a few times i guess it could be possible but never happens that often

[FishBrain]

Most of you know me and already know that I am not into Hybrids. The odd one is pretty cool and some people do make some awesome looking fish when doing it. I dont mind the ODD one (contradiction aware) but after hearing about a scary scientific study that by 2048 there will be NO MORE aquatic life left for us in the ocean, kinda makes you wonder if we should be working on hybrids that my be able to sustain food sources for us after we have depleated what we currently have, or to stop us from depleating it.

BUT NO we should not be making rabbit/cats or human/monkeys unless they are trying to create another food source for us.

Besides once mother nature has decided she has had enough of us (humans) screwing with her and her other "children" she is going to wipe us off to start allover again

all I am saying because I do not feel like writing a book as it is so easy to do on this subject

[a1foxes]

oh yeah as for people sell dogs mixed with wolves -roll- unless the person has pics i find it impossible to understand this a wolf would kill a dog b4 it would mate with one a malmute looks similar to a wolf but its a dog which easly confused with a wolf i seen this pop up a few times i guess it could be possible but never happens that often

Actually I know someone personally, who has bred wolf hybrids for years. He started out

with a husky/shepherd cross female, had it bred to a timberwolf(captive one), and the

offspring were again bred back to a timberwolf. Most of his animals are 3/4 to 7/8 wolf

now. I would never own one, and I really don't see the practicality, but its not new to

peoples in northern climates who have used sled dogs for centuries. Most of them are

bigger and stronger than most domestic dogs, however, much harder to handle also.

Lets just say, I wouldnt want to leave ANY kid alone with even one of those hybrids,

never mind have one living in the same house as kids. He has grandkids that visit, but

he's smart enough to know not to leave them alone with the kids. Its the idiots who

just get them without fully understanding what they are, the novelty I guess...

[Toirtis]

My first dog was a 7/8 wolf....got him when I was 9...he was by far the most intelligent, aware, and bonded canine that I have ever known...lived to 13 years. I have owned 3 others since, and although I do not currently own any canines, I would own a wolf again before I would a domestic dog.

But the theme of this thread is deliberately produced aquarium fish hybrids....I would not own any and feel that the production of them is, at best, irresponsible...especially since so many pure species (Ameca splendens, Endlers livebearers, etc) are either extinct in the wild or close to it.

[pasomystic]

Amazes me how different people perceive reality. Thanks to those who can understand that the more you know the more you desire to know, [and the less you say about it], forum threads can get quite entertaining.

Humans will persist in trying to control and change all of their environment on a daily basis until they irradicate themselves. Just the nature of the beast. They will also proclaim the "truth" as they see it loudly and irresponsibly--whatever the subject, and regardless of whether they have any firsthand knowledge of same. Also human nature. Obviously, this same creature has decided that humans are the most wonderful species to ever grace the universe. Wonder what a jury of other life forms would have to say about that? Not that it matters, every dog has it's day, as they say,

As far as hybridization, there is nothing alive on the planet today that has not been affected by human tampering in some way, and the line to not cross is more blurred each decade. From sterile but immensely [to humans] useful mules--to Dolly the sheep from outer reality, the desire to recreate and reinvent everything around us has a long history and is unstoppable. Unfortunately. For us.