RD. Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I decided at this point I best start my own thread on this subject, and for further details you can see Jenn's thread in the Fish Photo section. As mentioned in that thread, there are numerous L. caeruleus hybrids now floating around in the Provinces. Some are easy to spot, some are impossible without seeing their siblings. As an example, here's an obvious one. I might also point out that it came from an importer in Calgary, as did the rest of its siblings. Note that this fish is lacking any black submarginal banding in the dorsal fin. Usually you'll find one of these in a tank with similar juvies, although some might look like a normal yellow lab, and some might have faint or broken banding in the dorsal fin. Now here's one that isn't so obvious. This one came from a wholesaler in BC, as did the rest of its siblings. The pics aren't very good, but the fish above looked outstanding when I bought him & his juvie siblings. He had the makings of a great breeder male, until the group started to get bigger (which was when this pic was taken), and I noticed that not only was the color a bit more orange/yellow then the typical yellow lab, but that some of his siblings had broken black banding in the dorsal fins, with two of the juvies having almost zero black showing in the dorsal fins. Just a heads up for those of you looking to purchase some yellow labs. caveat emptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I have also noticed that there are a lot more hybrid labs out there. I myself was had when i bought "solid yellow labs" thinking they were just a line bred to have no yellow(this was ebfore i knew there was a possibility they could be hybrids). After they got a bit bigger it was obvious that it was a red zebra/yellow labs cross. They were a more orangy yellow and it didn't have the head shape of a lab. After i bought the solid yellows i posted a question on cichlid-forum about what exactly solid yellows were. Most everyone said they are usually hybrids. I"m sure there are some cases that they are line bred but i dont' believe that the line bred solid yellows are easily availiable,atleast i dont' think i 've ever seen them. All the times i've seen solid yellow labs at the stores they looked like hybrids(heads didn't look like regular labs and the color was too orange). IF you want to get more info about this there have been a couple really good threads about solid yellow labs at www.cichlid-forum.com I'm not saying all solid labs are hybrids but you should be aware that they could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahim101 Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 RD: Can you PM me where you those both came from BC and AB...I want to make sure I don't end up any. Thanks Neil, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Rahim - both of those fish & their siblings came from importers/wholesalers, so unless you are privy to the stores wholesale suppliers, you won't know anyhoo. Really, these fish aren't difficult to spot, at least not when they are in any quantity of numbers. Most will have weak/broken or no black submarginal banding in the dorsal fins. The fact that these labs are just recently starting to show up in larger quantities, pretty much confirms in my mind that they are NOT pure linebred specimens, but are indeed hybrids, that have been created via cross breeding, inbreeding, and line breeding. If you think about it, what's the one trait that is lacking in most wholesale yellow labs ...... good color with little to no barring. So instead of finding some quality breeding stock, they have simply been crossing them with a quick fix (most likely M. esterhae) & then breeding those fish back to yellow labs. If in fact these were pure solid L. caeruleus that have simply been line bred, then ask yourself why these fish weren't showing up 10-15 years ago? My understanding is there has never been a solid yellow lab seen in the wild, by anyone. Is it possible, yes, anything is possible, but I suspect by now there would have been many solid yellow labs also showing up in hobbyists tanks, yet I have not heard of a single example of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I have seen this fish in a "local" LFS, and was told that they were line-bred yellow labs. But I seriously doubt that they were line bred. If anyone was line breeding these, they would make a killing off them from all of us. However, most are making a killing off the unaware...which is all too common in this business.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Oh, BTW, I just can't wait to see these as F1 or F0 "all-yellow labs"...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahim101 Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 RD: In calgary, I am privy to some of the wholesellers. Please PM me...I assure you the names will not be spread by me!!!! Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahim101 Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Oh by the Neil, have you had any fry from your F1's yet???? I'd love some F2's..... I talked to Kyle a while back about buying a buch off him, but, he wont lower the price for the amount that I wanted..... Let me know. Thanks, Rahim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Sorry, no F2's for you. As for the wholesale suppliers, just look at the fish before you buy them, then ask who supplied them. The one in Calgary is a major wholesale importer that's be around for a long time, and that's all I'm saying about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I don't have as much of a problem with the wholesalers who are trying to sell these. The retailers should have a clue what they are buying, although I understand that places like Wal-Mart and Petland don't specialize in fish. What annoys me is the smaller LFS's who sell this type of hybrid, knowing full well that they are hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 (edited) Yes, but the wholesalers are calling these fish yellow labs, not yellow lab hybrids. I'm not sure if some of these wholesalers even know what the hell they are selling? Edited December 1, 2004 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Hey, maybe not....they probably have the same type of people working for them as the big box stores. But the smaller LFS sure as hell know what they are selling..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 I have seen this fish in a "local" LFS, and was told that they were line-bred yellow labs. BTW dunl, were these 'supposed' line bred labs in a LFS in Red Deer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunl Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nope, I saw them in Calgary. Funny thing, though.....although I was told they were line-bred, I haven't seen any on any more of my visits there in the past year. You would think with a product like all-yellow line breds, that you would keep pumping them out....if they really were line bred. Anyone else think this is suspicious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted December 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 (edited) In Calgary? Really, how interesting ....... Gosh, I wonder if it was one of those retailers that Smokey was talking about in his "Wild Caught" thread? You know, the ones that are highly regarded; with a highly supportive/dedicated customer base. :hey: Edited December 1, 2004 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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