New Life Spectrum Food

[Cap'n]

RD,

Thanks for addressing the issue, but my complaint was more about the lack of info on other brands, not the promotion of NLS. This was especially obvious when Albert asked for recomendations on foods not to use, which was ignored in favour of a plug for NLS. Not to mention that this thread, which does focus on your favorite fish food, was already in progress.

I don't want to disparage you enthusiasm for NLS. Sounds like a great product and I plan to try it myself. I was just trying to point out that the final exam in a course entitled "Nutrition 101" would not be completed with the single answer "New Life Spectrum".

[ÐÉÅÑ]

Neil dont you think that it would be hard to compete with Kensfish.com. With his low prices on NLS and his new cheap shipping to Canada (thanks Neil). From what Ken quoted me it'll only cost a bit over $20cnd for 300g of NLS. I guess customes will be the great equalizer :mad: .

[RD.]

No problem Cpt, but I think that somehow you missed the entire point of my initial post in the Nutrition 101 thread?

This was especially obvious when Albert asked for recomendations on foods not to use

You see, that's exactly what I did NOT want to get into. The idea was to get people to use their own noodles, and make some decisions on their own. It's for that exact same reason I left out brand names in the article I wrote for C-F. At the time I was writing that article Eric (admin at CF) told me he could hook me up with a few of the major players in the fish food circle, including Pablo Tepoot, but I told him that I did not want to endorse *any* manufacturers in that article, I wanted people to read it, learn from it, and make their own educated decisions.

Most people already know what my favourite food is, that's a given, but that thread was never meant to be a 'review' on every brand of food on the market, good or bad. (the last thing I need is a lawsuit on my hands)

If you read the initial comment, and the info in the various links provided, you should have a good understanding of what you want to see in the first 4-5 ingredients in any given fish food, and what you do not want to see.

Edited January 17, 2005 by RD.

[RD.]

Dean - No, not at all. For a starter, other than a handful of people on this site, who I've now informed, anyone in Canada looking to order from Ken will find the shipping on a 300 gram container of his food will cost more than the food.

Also, if Ken starts getting complaints about lost or damaged shipments to Canada, then I imagine he'll do an about face on that 'new' shipping policy.

Also, anyone that has done any volume ordering from the USA also understands that unless they get damn lucky, any items valued at over $20 Cdn, also get taxed at both a Federal & Provincial level, and the nice Postal person who delivers their parcel charges them an additional $5 for collecting that tax. For example, someone living in Ont might find that their #20 Cdn order, actually costs them an additional $8 when it lands on their doorstep. Not only should I be able to match or beat that price ($28.00 on a single 300 gr container), but because I have a business account with Canada Post I can ship via Expedited at the same cost of regular post, which means 1-3 business days to most locations in Canada.

I suspect that Ken would have a rather difficult time beating a turn around like that.

Guys like yourself, well, there will be no shipping fee at all, so again, it's pretty easy to beat Ken's price.

Then you have to factor in the retail market, for the folks that will NEVER order fish food online, but will only purchase dry goods locally, and that's where the real market will be at. How much food do you think places like some of the larger stores in Calgary & Edmonton move on a monthly basis? Retail stores know this, and although they may not make a lot of money on individual sales of dry goods, they also know that when you come in for that food, you just might leave with a few more items that were "compulsive" buys. Not that anyone here as ever done that. (myself included)

Now factor in some of the markets in Provinces such as Ont, and you can see the potential. The truth is, individual sales won't be a money maker for me, but large volume sales to retail outfits might be. If there's any money to be made, it will be on volume, not a few containers sold here & there.

And of course there are new laws coming out all the time with regards to cross border food shipments. (both human & animal)

I suspect most people on this board have no idea how much red tape is involved in some of this cross border shipping. The minute it becomes more of a hassle than what its worth, US based online retailers may decide to go with USA shipments only? It's obviously the bulk of their customer base to begin with, and involves a lot less paper work. Just look at what the USA now enforces with regards to shipping food to their country. (even cookies from your Aunt Martha)

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~pn/pnmail.html

All of that stems from the Bioterrorism Act of 2002.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fsbtact.html

SUMMARY: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing an interim

final regulation that requires the submission to FDA of prior notice of

food, including animal feed, that is imported or offered for import

into the United States. The interim final rule implements the Public

Health Security and Bioterrorism Preparedness and Response Act of 2002

(the Bioterrorism Act), which requires prior notification of imported

food to begin on December 12, 2003, even in the absence of a final

regulation. The interim final rule requires that the prior notice be

submitted to FDA electronically via either the Bureau of Customs and

Border Protection (CBP) Automated Broker Interface (ABI) of the

Automated Commercial System (ACS) or the FDA Prior Notice System

Interface (FDA PN System Interface). The information must be submitted

and confirmed electronically as facially complete by FDA for review no

more than 5 days and no less than 8 hours (for food arriving by water),

4 hours (for food arriving by air or land/rail), and 2 hours (for food

arriving by land/road) before the food arrives at the port of arrival.

Food imported or offered for import without adequate prior notice is

subject to refusal and, if refused, must be held.

Edited January 16, 2005 by RD.

[ÐÉÅÑ]

True

[RD.]

Glad that helped clear things up.

Also, keep in mind that the average consumer is willing to PAY (and sometimes a lot) for convenience. If they weren't, the Red Deer Petland would have been out of business a long time ago.

So if you're willing to pay $20 Cdn for this food, plus GST, plus $5 to the letter carrier ($26.40 Cdn), how much would you be willing to pay for the convenience of being able to pick it up at the LFS? If one doesn't have a CC, or a US checking account, or doesn't own a computer, or is just plain in a hurry for that food, then I suspect they'd be willing to pay a few bucks more, sound logical?

My goal isn't to get rich on this product, my goal is simply to get the food out there.

If this deal with Pablo goes through (and it appears it's going to) personally I'd prefer to deal with retail establishements, and skip the individual sales altogether. Ken makes his money in volume, which is my goal as well, I'll just be approaching things from a different angle.

Edited January 16, 2005 by RD.

[ÐÉÅÑ]

Sounds logical to me.

But honestley $26.40 for a good quality fish food in Alberta is a good deal. The OSI flake I bought was regular $34 :cry: and its only 200g. But knowing RD Petland they would charge quite a bit more, and driving to Edmonton or Calgary would neither be cost or time effective. Plus I'll need the Naturose anyway.

[RD.]

The OSI flake I bought was regular $34  and its only 200g.

Ouch!

Obviously that 200 gr container of flake will 'appear' to be more food (due to the size of the container) than a 300 gr container of NLS, but it takes a lot of flake to equal the nutrition packed into a small quality pellet. Flake food can also be messy, and in order for larger species to meet their full daily nutritional requirements they have to consume an awful lot of some brands of flakes.

I think anyone feeding larger species comes to that conclusion rather fast.

As far as the Naturose, now that I have a better understanding of 'exactly' what raw ingredients are used in NLS I've come to the conclusion that adding 'extra' astaxanthin to NLS is not only not necessary for the vast majority of fish, in most cases the majority of what's 'added' probably comes out the other end as waste.

IMO (even though Pablo disagrees) there are 'some' fish that can show an improvement in color, compared to just straight NLS. In most cases the only fish this may help improve, is one that's already seriously lacking in color. A poorly colored A. rubescens being a good example. Others, such as primarily blue or yellow fish, you will not see any real improvement whatsoever. (if you're already feeding NLS) The fish can only utilize so much, and the rest gets expelled as waste. This same thing applies to spirulina. Jehmco sells a 'pure' spirulina flake, but unless you are mixing it in with other brands of flakes (simply to increase the spirulina content) it's pretty much useless as a sole food source. Most species of fish (including the strict herbivores) can only utilize so much of the plant protein & minerals found in pure spirulina.

Honestly, the only 'before & after' photos I've seen (where the fish was already eating NLS as its main staple) that did show a strong improvement in color when extra astaxanthin was added, involved fish that were very poor in color to begin with, and/or were in a transitional period of maturity, or were recently acquired fish that may have not yet fully acclimatized to their new surroundings. (such as WC fish) Obviously in the latter two cases this would not be a fair assessment for judging improvement in color.

Now if someone could take two groups of high quality M. esterhae, and feed both groups NLS exclusively for say 90 days straight, then take one group and feed it NLS with added asaxanthin for another 90 days, while the other group remains on NLS only, that might be worthy of documenting. (given all parameters are exactly equal in both tank environments)

Even more interesting would be to take the same 2 groups as above (F1 fry) and run the feed trial from fry, right through to adulthood. (approx 18 months)

Will adding 'extra' astaxanthin to NLS hurt? No, but at the same time for the vast majority of fish it won't help either.

Edited April 19, 2005 by RD.

[ÐÉÅÑ]

so unless you have fish that have a lot of red or orange in them.

That could be a possibility. Kyle told me that if fed the right diet that tropheops macrophthalmus can get a rather bright orange.

[RD.]

Kyle told me that if fed the right diet that tropheops macrophthalmus can get a rather bright orange.

Most light colored fish fed a diet that's very high in orange/red color enhancers can become bright orange.

The goal is to feed a diet that is rich enough in natural carotenes so the fish appears just like it does in the wild, but not so high in these carotenes that your yellow lab becomes an orange lab.

The makers of Naturose sent me a PDF document that contained a male rubescens (before & after) and although the change in color was dramatic, IMO the fish was of very poor color to begin with, and the owner of that fish (whom I spoke with) fed this fish MASSIVE amounts of astaxanthin in order to get that fish to color up to that extreme.

IMO if your fish needs that much astaxanthin in order to color up, it's time to take a look at their genetic make up, not their food.

Edited January 16, 2005 by RD.

[ÐÉÅÑ]

So the key is to buy loads of NLS. :rofl: :P (jk Neil)

[RD.]

Dean, to be honest, I think you're going to be very suprised at how long that single 300 gr container lasts.

[Vallisneria]

I bought a 20oz container for NLS in the spring and i still have 2/3 of it left(and i'm feeding it to 6 tanks). So one can will last a long time

Edited January 17, 2005 by degrassi

[ÐÉÅÑ]

:shock: Wow, thats quite amazing.

[RD.]

Yes, it is amazing how long a single container will last. I aked Pablo several months back about using a "best before" date on his food containers, and this is a portion of his response to me .......

I have not tested other fish food, but, I did lab. test on NLS. After 2 years, under normal room temperature, exposed to air every 3 mos., the shrinkage on Vitamins A,E, & C was suprisingly low-15%. Since I take into account a 35% shrinkage to compensate for the loss, NLS is way ahead of the game. Exposing to the air is not a problem, but moisture "wet fingers" can cause spoilage of the food prematurely. We started w/ 10% moisture in NLS, but reduced it to 5%, just to further insure mold is not a problem.

So, to answer your question in a round about way, there is no need for an expiration date. New Life Int'l will gladly refund the money, if the food loses its potency within 1 year of your purchase.

I can personally vouch for the above statement, as I'm still using my original 2 containers (300 gr Cichlid Formula, and 600 gr Large Fish Formula) that were purchased in Oct 2003.

If stored in the freezer, and only 2-4 weeks worth is removed each month, this food will easily maintain it's nutritional value for 18 months. Not only does it go a long ways due to the lesser amount you need to feed, but it also stores well for long periods of time.

Edited January 17, 2005 by RD.