Slough Shark Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Hey guys, This is going to be what I hope to be my first "serious" planted tank. I have been looking into ferts, substrates, lighting, CO2, and all that other junk that goes with having plants :P The Tank- First off, I will say what tank I am dealing with... it is a 30 Gallon mature tank, bare bottom at the moment. My light is a 78 Watt T5 High Output (one 10 000K Daylight T5HO, one FW T5HO), so that should be adequate for the plants I want (java fern, java moss, crypts, rotala, asian watermoss). Substrate- I know you guys probably get lots of questions about substrate, but I am still confused after alot of research. So.... Eco-complete is a type of fluorite, correct? I am looking for a base substrate but I don't want to use peat (which I have) because I detest tannins in my water, so I would like to try fluorite or laterite. But I have read here that laterite is difficult to find, is Eco-complete any better? Over top of the nutrient-rich substrate will go some thin Target Play Sand. I plan on having the nutrient substrate thick at the back and slowly reduced to the front, since this seems to be a good plan from my reading. Ferts- So the substrate will take care of alot of the fertilization for me, right? Will I need to dose with Excel? What about CO2, will I require that? Fish- Oh, of course, can't forget the most important part. I dunno if it is all that important, but i will post what will go in the tank anyways. If I can find them, I want 5 Chocolate Gouramies, a few wild type bettas (most likely mouthbrooders), and some Pangio loaches. If I can't get the chocolates, then I will have to substitute with dwarf rasboras or something. Basically it is going to be a SE Asian swamp biotope. I guess that's all I can think of to ask now guys, Thank you for any help, Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werner Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Read all the info here- it should answer some of your q's. It's one of the best overviews I have seen for starting a planted aquarium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werner Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 The Tank- Sounds fine. You should have plenty of light for those plants. Substrate- Flourite and Eco Complete are brand names of specialty plant substrates. Laterite is any clay based soil additive. Flourite seems to be the most popular and available, but I'm sure they're all just as effective. Sloping the substrate is generally used to give the illusion of a deeper tank (front to back) and highlight the rear aquascaping. It eventually all tries to settle back to the front anyway. Ferts- The substrate will hold nutrients for the plants, but you will still need to provide some in the water column. Plants like java fern and java moss need more water column fertilization because they aren't rooted in the substrate. Crypts and swords are heavier root feeders and benefit from fertilizer tablets in the gravel. You do have a decent amount of light, so your tank would benefit from added carbon. Excel would do that for you, or you can use a CO2 system. The little Hagen or Red Sea kits would work for a tank that size, or you can try DIY CO2. Or... you could just go and buy a pressurized system so you can use it when you decide that you want a much bigger planted tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byte Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Over top of the nutrient-rich substrate will go some thin Target Play Sand. I tried to layer my substrates at first, but with planting and transplanting, it all gets mixed up anyways I have tried Eco-complete and Flourite and have not noticed any difference between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Like byte said, your substrate will mix; so, don't bother getting different kinds. I've had lush planted tanks using just TPS or Sil9... I used to use Flourite exclusively b/c I believed I needed the high CEC and iron right off the hop. However, I've found that the plants will get what they need from the water (in the gravel, too). Werner gives good advice on the Crypts and Swords - stick some root tabs by them (beside, not under). Your Java fern/moss and stem plants will need ferts in the water column. Adding Carbon is probably your best defense against algae. Pressurized CO2 is the best, IMO/E I think NC still sells little paintball canisters w. a little regulator. I used one of these for years 'til I got tired of filling it every month for my 55; but on smaller tanks it was great! If you go the DIY CO2 route, add a bit of Excel to keep things constant - I've found that fluctuating CO2 levels can encourage algae growth. Also, if you want to win the algae battle from the get-go, fill your tank w. lots of fast-growing stem plants 'til the big root-feeders get going. I am not partial to stem plants, myself, b/c I don't like all the trimming, but when I don't add them at the start I battle algae for a while. Once your tank gets establish (3 months or so), replace the stem plants w. the plants you want... or just take them out if you already have your plants in there. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimired Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 You seem well versed. I just set up a planted / community tank a few weeks agao and things seems to be going OK. Im new to all this, but, here are my two pennies. Substrate- rinse , rinse rinse again, I was surprised after rinsing in the bucket how much clay/fines came off in the tank with the eco. I used a water well drilling sand (sil 9), cheap, finer than gravel, but still easy to vac, dosn't jump up into the tube. 1/3 eco complete 2/3 sand I put plant food chunks right in the substrate. I then added ferts after as well, dont do that, lol, algea heaven, use one or the other, easy on the iron, For carbon Im down at 3 ml of excel flourish daily in a 55 gal with medium to heavy planted tank and getting good growth. Aquascaping: low ones up front, long ones in the back and rear corners, it is realy personal choice. here's a good link with great planted tank ideas. http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2007.cgi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byte Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Substrate- rinse , rinse rinse again, I was surprised after rinsing in the bucket how much clay/fines came off in the tank with the eco. The little clay particles are just loaded with good stuff for your plants. IMO, having a mix of the fines and coarse makes the substrate more like a real lake bottom. Don't dump the substrate into the tank, use a container to lower it to the bottom and slowly empty to minimize the dust. A couple good filters with polish pads will remove the cloudiness in a few hours. I put plant food chunks right in the substrate. You have to be careful about using garden/house plant type root fertilizer as they can contain things we don't want in an aquarium. Also after you get all those stem plants growing good and it is time for a trim, don't remove too many of them at once. I had everything growing like crazy so I did a major trimming and removed a bunch of the stem plants after only 1 month. This seemed to bring on a little battle with algae. See if you can find a bunch of fast growing stem plants from an AA member to get you started... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slough Shark Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Wow, guys, thanks VERY much for all the great advice. That answers all of the questions, but I have some new ones... naturally! About the substrate, since this is going to be a swamp tank, I will require a sand bottom, could I use Kitty litter with TPS? I read that this has a few nice things for plants, and I figure that with the root tablets and excel, the plants should be fine without an intense substrate (like jvision mentioned). I don't plan on doing CO2 at the moment, but if later on down the road I decide to try it, I'll opt for DIY, might run a tube up the filter intake or something... we'll see. Right now, the excel sounds ALOT simpler. I guess I should at least mention filtration. I am planning on purchasing a RENA Filstar XP 1 Canister Filter for this tank, for the benefit of the fish. Right now, I have an AC 70 and AC 20 on it, I guess I'll use to the 20 for CO2 if/when the time comes. It looks like thats it guys, I'm looking forward to this tank, and thanks for the help so far! Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Chicklets Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 I would sugest the xp2 instead of the 1 it will give you more options on media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slough Shark Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Sounds great Nick, it's only $40 more than the XP1, so it wont hurt. Thanks, Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werner Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 OK- take all the regular 'rules' of filtration and forget them for this tank (gasp, choke!). Keep in mind that the plants will be sucking up the NH3/NH4 (and NO2 and NO3), so you won't need nearly the same level of biological filtration (if any). The filter will be more useful for mechanical filtration and water flow. And you don't want too strong a water flow either. You shouldn't be needing charcoal, or any other chemical filtration. Ceramic rings (or whatever) with some coarse foam and fine floss should be sufficient. If you do end up adding CO2 down the road, you don't want a really strong water flow. Surface agitation will allow your CO2 to escape into the air. ACs and other HOB filters aren't really recommended for this reason. Canisters are great since you can position the spray bar just under the water surface to create a slight ripple. I think you should stick with the XP1. Spend the extra $40 on more plants, or a bag of Flourite, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byte Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 About the substrate, since this is going to be a swamp tank, I will require a sand bottom, could I use Kitty litter with TPS? I would be worried about what happens when you pull out a large plant in 3 months. A lot of that kitty litter might come up into the water. Kitty litter is made from clay, but some have scents and who knows what else in there... You could try mixing a test batch in a small container (like a nano) and see what happens after the litter gets wet. Stir up the mix in a few days and see what happens. I don't plan on doing CO2 at the moment, but if later on down the road I decide to try it, I'll opt for DIY, might run a tube up the filter intake or something... we'll see. Right now, the excel sounds a lot simpler. I think the excel is a better choice than DIY C02 as it is more consistent. Pressurized is nice, but for the price, you can buy lots of excel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Just wanted to add a little to the wonderful advice you have already had. First off, after hearing someone was looking for laterite I was able to find some at petland, pet smart and pisces here in calgary....what are the odds of that. But the laterite you will be paying a bigger buck than for the fluorite. Don't know if I would trust cat litter. When I added the fluorite to my tank I just mixed it all in with the substrate since taking all the gravel from the 90 gallon would have been too much of a hassle. We like to use the fert sticks as well where you just stick them in by the roots of the plants. For DIY CO2 it can be done, or for your tank you can also go with the hagen natural plant system, we found them at pet smart for $25 each, they will do for up to 20 gallons. So if you use one of those and the excel I do believe you will have enough carbon, but werner may have a better idea. We don't use the packs of products for the canisters though, we always make our own yeast batch since it is much more cost efficient. Sounds like you will have a great planted tank, can't wait to see some pics when it's all done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottomdweller_fan Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Nature's Corner here in Edmonton also carries laterite (I think I saw 2 different sizes when I was there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slough Shark Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Ok, sounds like a plan. I will get the XP1, I have the lighting, I need gravel, ferts, fish, and of course- the plants! I am leaning towards getting flourite dark for my tank. I will either use it for the whole tank, or I will separate the sand in front and the flourite in back with some larger rocks. This is definitely my plan for my 10 gallon, but that is going to have to wait till i get the new shelving unit... Thanks again for all of the great help and advice people, Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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