Cichlid Selection

[EowynJane]

I appreciate everyone's input... I'm not to upset about not keeping the demasoni. Being new to cichlids I'd like something with a little less potential for trouble, demasoni are hit or miss from what I've heard.

Can I ask how much the fish from the breeder cost? And what were the shipping charges like? I'm working on a budget so I may just have to wait.

I think I'm going to start with around 5 of each the labs and afra (when I can get them) and see how things go from there. I love bristlenose plecos... think I could add one to the tank when it's a little more mature?

I think my husband was kind of disappointed I'm not getting something he can feed meat to (almost makes me reconsider the bichirs )

[Boom]

Why not do something less slightly less common than Yellow labs. They are nice fish but they're a dime a dozen, everyone has 'em and half the people are getting rid of them all the time.

Have you though of a group of salousi's? The males are blue similar to demasoni's, and the females are a very nice yellow.

Just a thought.

Harold (Fairdeal) has demasoni's if you do want those, but make sure you get either only 1 or 12 or more. In small groups the dominant male apparently kills everyone else off till he's alone. A larger group will prevent that. (So I've read, never kept them myself).

Boom :boom:

For the record, I wasn't saying that Yellow labs are not nice fish to have or keep, nor was I saying anything about the quality of fish that are or aren't available.

I was simply saying that they are very common, and it seems that every store has them, and everytime I turn around, someone is trying to get rid of some.

For some people that's fine, other people may be interested in having something slightly less common, or interested in a single species that has both colors. I was just making a suggestion (which turns out many of you agree with anyway!)

My recommendation was (and still is) either a single species like salousi's where you have both colors.

OR some yellow labs and either a single, or large group (12+) of demasoni's.

There are many many other combinations and variations you could try, but few have the color and appeal that those options do.

Boom :boom:

[EowynJane]

My only problem with just keeping salousi is I think I read that you have to keep them at a ratio of 2f:1m. That means I would have a lot more yellow then blue, I wanted to keep it kind of even and I have always wanted Yellow Labs. I'm not sure why... just something about them that really appeals to me. I feel a little safer too... keeping something common on my first go with cichlids.

I'm still open to other blues... the demasoni's make me a little nervous though.

[Wingin' It]

My only problem with just keeping salousi is I think I read that you have to keep them at a ratio of 2f:1m. That means I would have a lot more yellow then blue, I wanted to keep it kind of even and I have always wanted Yellow Labs. I'm not sure why... just something about them that really appeals to me. I feel a little safer too... keeping something common on my first go with cichlids.

I'm still open to other blues... the demasoni's make me a little nervous though.

I love the Saulosi's, but man, my males were nasty! Bitting and agressiveness all over the place! I'd rather stick with the Yellow Labs too! Except now i'm into Tanganyikans.

[Urban_Cowboy]

if soulosi's dont appeal to you maybe try some "kenyi" dont know the scientific name they have the yellow and blue mix too and are still fairly common at most petstores i think it is one of the few fish that the males are yellow and the females are blue... i have also kept melanocromis johanni's before and they did good in my 50G just some more options for you too look at

[EowynJane]

Thanks for the suggestion.. I'll see if they're suitable for my tank.

Anyone ever keep a senegal bichir with yellow labs?

[RD.]

No, keeping a bichir in a tank that size along with mbuna (or any fish that will fit in its mouth) is not a good idea, for obvious reasons. The bichir will compete for the same caves etc that the mbuna are going to want to utilize, and the bichir will win hands down, even if it's a juvie bichir.

Generally speaking I don't even like seeing mbuna (any species) in a tank under 55 gallons, and 48" long.

Sure it can be done, but more importantly is ..... should it? I'm quite certain that a 12" Oscar could be kept in the same tank, but IMO it most certainly shouldn't be.

The smaller the footprint of the tank the more difficult it becomes for sub dominant males & females to escape the aggression from the dom male, as well as any other dom fish in the tank. My advice is that for someone new to keeping mbuna, keep it simple, and stick to the smaller less aggressive species, such as your first choice of yellow labs. Keep in mind that even yellow labs can get aggressive at times, they aren't like guppies & gourami. Even in a 6ft 125 gallon tank I've had male yellow labs that would beat the tar out of other males, and if/when seriously challenged by sub dom males, sometimes outright kill them. Now imagine what that same fish would do in a 40" 50 gallon tank.

Metriaclima lombardoi aka "kenyi" are a terrible choice for a tank the size of yours, even the females can be extremely aggressive, and the males are one of the nastiest mbunas that I have ever kept.

BTW Boom, not to beat a dead horse - but the very common yellow labs, that every store has in stock, are are also usually very poor quality, and in many cases are hybrid crosses. That was my point.

Having kept very high quality yellow labs in a 48" 55 gallon, as a single species, I can only say that it was one of my all time favourite mbuna set ups. Hell that was only 4 or 5 years ago, and for a while I was the only person in western Canada to have F1 yellow labs (thanks to Kyle (african_fever) and I knew of only 1 breeder here in AB (Don Gross) that actually had an impressive strain of domestic yellow labs. Back then even Spencer's yellow labs looked like shite, as did most suppliers.

Had Don & Kyle not bothered with spreading their fishes genes around the province, you'd still be looking at the same crapola labs that used to be common place 4-5 yrs ago.

Last but not least, and this is directed at EowyJane ......... often times one will read various comments about what has worked for other individuals, but when reading those comments keep in mind that in some cases those individuals are measuring their success in months, not years, which IMO is a very important factor in the BIG equation of what will typically work, and what won't. Anyone can keep a bunch of juvie or even semi adult fish in a 50 gallon, but in 2-3 yrs time what appeared to initially be a success story, may in fact end up being a disaster. Just something to think about when various opinions are being bantered about on various forums.

Edited February 22, 2009 by RD.

[EowynJane]

Well darn.... :cry: Thanks for the reply. Hubby is going to be very disappointed and I imagine he'll try to talk me into scrapping the yellows and keeping the bichirs. And yes... I've already brought up the subject of another larger tank, he flipped and threatened to send me to a shrink.

[firestorm]

I agree that kenyis will be too large and aggressive for that tank. I have a pair of them in my 90 gallon, and these guys grow huge. I would only stick to a dwarf species of mbuna in a 50. I still say go with a colony of salousi, several people have successfully kept them in tanks around that size. Or I do think you can still get away with 2 small groups of fish, but mbuna do better with more of them in a space, I find not the same fish is always being picked on so i don't have any huge aggression issues. I have about 30 mbuna in my 75.

[EowynJane]

I've always wanted to keep the Yellow Labs and I've ordered 5 of them from Fairdeal so I'm keeping those.

Don't want to do the salousi since I don't want them to breed with the yellows.

Not sure about the blues... demasoni or the afra's I guess. Little worried about the demasoni agression. I'll have to think on it.

Hubby didn't try to talk me into keeping the bichirs so at least that's one less thing to worry about.

[digital-monk]

I don't want to complicate your decision making, but I had 20 Demasoni and 10 Yellows in 55 gallon for 8 months with no significant issues. You just need a decent amount of rocks or hiding spaces.

Personally I really like the demasoni, and I haven't found them to be too troublesome. I've had more issues with the Saulosi males acting aggressively.

I think that you're on the right track and either mix will work out great.

[EowynJane]

LOL - you couldn't possibly make it anymore complicated then it already has been!

[Fishy]

I still have my breeding group of F1 yellow labs from Kyle (African fever). I have had some succesful spawns in the past and have given the fry to family and friends and their yellow labs grew up with amazing colors as well. I haven't kept any fry lately, I just let them spit in the tank as I don't have the time to raise fry atm. These yellow labs I have are beautiful, I have yet to see any labs come close to them in pet stores or anywhere for that matter. Be picky when you chose them, Im sure fairdeal has some nice ones although I haven't seen them personally, I have bought some other species from him and was very pleased.

Right now im experimenting with two different bloodlines of Dolphins. Have about 30 altogether growing out. Also 2 different bloodlines of Yellow Jakes, about 14 growing out. I plan to breed these in the future, as well as others.

Allan