firestorm Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 I guess that answers my question lol. I do use Prime in all of my tanks, I have no choice because with 20 tanks (some fairly large) I don't think I want to age my water :boxed: I don't mind having to do it with my shrimp tank, but it's only 15 gallons and I only take out about 3. I just wanted to know how true it was about not using it. With my work we only do about 10-20% water changes, and when we do larger ones we use the prime. I just wanted to know if the theory of the effects of not using them is true. Sorry about your losses T-man, that must really suck cause I can see you had a very nice collection of fish there. When it's spring runoff I would without a doubt use more prime. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Granted I do not change hundreds of gallons a week but do know of someone in Calgary who does. He also has alot more space than me too!! He has a fishroom in the basement and the barrels are upstairs so gravity empties them when he's filling his tank. They are insulated and he uses an airstone and heater in them to get the water ready. It's an interesting setup as he has over 40 tanks to take care of. I think he's like me and doesn't even know what Prime is. As an "aquabidaholic" I'd rather spend my money on strange plants coming in from all over the world. Having said that, I realise that my tanks are very stable(lucky me!!) and Prime would be a good addition for less well established tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Well of course it can be done, even with 100's of gallons of water, but the vast majority of people in this hobby don't have the luxury of having the indoor space to accommodate large storage vats full of aged water. A friend of mine in town has a large indoor storage vat (from back in his Discus breeding days) yet another has over 100 gallons going into a single tank on a daily basis (via an auto water changer), and although that tank has been established for several years, there is simply no way that he could store that kind of volume of properly aged water in his house. Unless he's looking for a divorce..... lol But the reality is that for most hobbyists IF they are maintaining more than just a few smaller tanks, they need to use some form of water conditioner, no matter how well or long their tanks have been established. If our goal is to encourage others to continue with the hobby, and help educate those people as to how to keep their tanks healthy, then I think it's important to ensure that everyone clearly understands just how toxic chlorine and/or chloramine can be to fish, and the various ways in which hobbyists can safely deal with these substances. The unfortunate loss of t-man's fish is a prime example of just how bad things can go wrong, even in a very stable, and well established tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williewonka Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Well of course it can be done, even with 100's of gallons of water, but the vast majority of people in this hobby don't have the luxury of having the indoor space to accommodate large storage vats full of aged water. A friend of mine in town has a large indoor storage vat (from back in his Discus breeding days) yet another has over 100 gallons going into a single tank on a daily basis (via an auto water changer), and although that tank has been established for several years, there is simply no way that he could store that kind of volume of properly aged water in his house. Unless he's looking for a divorce..... lol But the reality is that for most hobbyists IF they are maintaining more than just a few smaller tanks, they need to use some form of water conditioner, no matter how well or long their tanks have been established. If our goal is to encourage others to continue with the hobby, and help educate those people as to how to keep their tanks healthy, then I think it's important to ensure that everyone clearly understands just how toxic chlorine and/or chloramine can be to fish, and the various ways in which hobbyists can safely deal with these substances. The unfortunate loss of t-man's fish is a prime example of just how bad things can go wrong, even in a very stable, and well established tank. Plus, with all the money invested in tanks and fish, for the sake of a couple of bucks a week let alone the extra work involved in aging water (if your in an area where that is possible).. why take the risk. Even an extra capful of prime or whatever a person uses is cheap insurance in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CORVETTE Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 i for one will never be without prime. 4 years ago i never used prime for any water changes then one spring i lost 11 6-8" clowns i had for years.. everything else in the tank lived even the Botia but all the clowns dead in a 3 hour period right after a water change. When i checked the tap water you could smell the clorine which hasn't happened again since that year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishkabod Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I'm in Edmonton so using the Aging method is impossible but even if i was in a place that would allow me to use aged water i would be cautious and use some prime too. Better safe than sorry. Have a great week L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishkabod Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I'm in Edmonton so using the Aging method is impossible but even if i was in a place that would allow me to use aged water i would be cautious and use some prime too. Better safe than sorry. Have a great week L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Dawg Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 If I was a "newbie" to the hobby, I would be discouraged by all the testing,etc. Our goal is to encourage others to continue with the hobby. My goal is to help others realise that they can keep fish and have a healthy tank without a lot of expensive chemicals or equipment. Our house tempature fluctuates enough that we need heaters. I do not think using a single additive like prime is to mystical or expensive for new comers. When you add water add this, if the fish act different add a bit more and take water to the LFS for testing. The bottle lasts a long time, still on the origonal bottle even with adding another tank. The biggest issue I had when we started was the conflicting advice. Don't change too much water, don't change too little. An all in one dip strip is all you need, you need to the full blown master test kit. Toss out the carbon and add sponge, you need what the filter people give you. A guy who sadly no longer works at the LFS was the first that simplified it. Add prime, it will all work out. Yes what is going on is complex, but you don't need to understand it all. Don't worry about the rows of product, you have simple fish with simple needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I wish I had the room to age my water, but those who have seen my house would understand how that is impossible lol (I barely have enough room for all my tanks). I try to do all of my water changes within 2 days on the weekend, so that's alot of water. If I was changing a few each night then yeah it could be possible, but I don't have the energy on weeknights. Although aging water for my smaller tanks is no problem, but what's the difference of using a small squirt of prime and saving the hassle. I agree that aging your water can be good, but not suitable for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think I must quote RD on this one. "Most" aquarists need to add some water conditioner is what he said, I believe. In my own situation, I believe there are risks inherent in any kind of equipment(cheap heater boils the fish,fish finds hole in lid, etc.), chemicals, livestock(who hasn't had a fish eaten) food(oscar tried to eat a whole weekend block at once) and even family members(yes my cat ate 2 bettas and would like more). We all choose our risks and I'll take mine on water. I do like the comment that a couple of dollars a week is cheap insurance(no offense intended and meant) but after 30 years that might add up!! So folks, I will continue to age my water and mix it with tap water with no additives. However, please do use Prime or some form of water conditioner for your fish. I would hate to see anyone lose a fish because my fishkeeping is not the norm!! PS anyone who shows up at CAS with a bottle of prime gets all my duckweed!! LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williewonka Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think I must quote RD on this one. "Most" aquarists need to add some water conditioner is what he said, I believe. In my own situation, I believe there are risks inherent in any kind of equipment(cheap heater boils the fish,fish finds hole in lid, etc.), chemicals, livestock(who hasn't had a fish eaten) food(oscar tried to eat a whole weekend block at once) and even family members(yes my cat ate 2 bettas and would like more). We all choose our risks and I'll take mine on water. I do like the comment that a couple of dollars a week is cheap insurance(no offense intended and meant) but after 30 years that might add up!! So folks, I will continue to age my water and mix it with tap water with no additives. However, please do use Prime or some form of water conditioner for your fish. I would hate to see anyone lose a fish because my fishkeeping is not the norm!! PS anyone who shows up at CAS with a bottle of prime gets all my duckweed!! LOL!! No offense taken. It was only a comment. I know one guy who doesn't change water ever, only tops up for evaporation. I wouldn't tell him or anyone else how to take care of their tanks. I happen to live in an area where I have to use conditioner and with almost 400 gal. of tanks it wouldn't be feasible for me to age water even if I could. But, speaking only for myself(as a natural lazy person), even if I only had a 10 gal tank and could age water, the 15 drops of prime that it would take to do a water change without advance planning is a cheap investment in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Don't worry Anne Marie, I will be aging my shrimp water soon once I get my almonds leaves. Aging water not only removes chlorine, but it can also be good for aging water if you soften your water because then you can add your almond leaves or peat and soften it before adding it to your aquarium (otherwise you might be in for a large pH change). But when aging water you must use something to keep the water oxygenated otherwise the water will go stale and there won't be any oxygen left in the water by the time you go to use it. Many people also use heaters so the temp is the same as in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natures Corner Store Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Water Changes Are Critically Important<link (this article was written for pond owners but aquariums are no different) "Chlorinated and chloraminated water is usually supplied to hobbyists "at the tap" from municipal water supplies. The water company adds these two chemicals to disinfect the water. Each day, municipal source-water is tested for eggs, spores, ova and cysts of various pathogens. If any are found, it may be that the municipal water authority will double or triple the chlorine or chloramine concentration. Spritzing the water into the pond slowly WILL dissipate a lot of chlorine, but will it dissipate all of it? Dechlorinate. By dechlorinating the water, you can be 100% sure the chlorine is gone and will not harm your fish. When your municipal water supply uses Chloramine, you will be relieved to know that dechlorinator can still bind the harmful Chlorine. The remaining Ammonia should be no match for a cycled (properly functioning, well colonized) filtration system." "...about forty percent of the hobby is not doing ANY water changes at all. This accounts for recurring illness among the fish, slow growth, and poor color. " ""Topping Off" the pond is not a water change. You should know this about water: The solids in water do NOT evaporate, nor do many of the chemicals in the water. This means that the nitrates, phosphates, a good bit of the carbon dioxide, all the salt, minerals, etc NEVER leave the pond and accumulate over time. As the pond water level goes down by evaporation, you may notice that the fish perk up as you add water back. There is a transient increase in water quality after the addition of 'new" water but it's rapidly offset by the dissolution of the existing background pollution. So, "topping off" actually concentrates solids and organic chemicals in the water over time. Real water changes should be endeavored." The complete article written by one of the top fish veterinarians Dr. Erik Johnson DVM can be found here< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Dawg Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I do like the comment that a couple of dollars a week is cheap insurance(no offense intended and meant) but after 30 years that might add up!! 500ml Prime $15, 7ml-10ml a week for both tanks, so for us $0.25-$0.30 a week. Given how some of you trade however that could be a few 10G tanks, a bit of duckweed, and a light fixture a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Actually what I said was ....... But the reality is that for most hobbyists IF they are maintaining more than just a few smaller tanks, they need to use some form of water conditioner, no matter how well or long their tanks have been established. Henry - while I have great respect for Dr. Erik Johnson I disagree with the following comment; The remaining Ammonia should be no match for a cycled (properly functioning, well colonized) filtration system." In an aquarium setting, by not binding/neutralizing the free ammonia (via Prime etc) the fish are exposed to ammonia for at least a few hours (in many cases much longer, depending on ones filtration system) which is never a good thing. Even in small doses, repeated exposure to free ammonia is very harmful to fish. Of course this only applies to tap water that is treated with chloramine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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