Filter as a live food feeder

[Iceturf]

Could a person get their aged filter (say a freshwater canister filter) to supply the tank with some kind of live food?

-like a culture system that slowly trickled out the stuff

If so, any ideas as to how?

Edited April 21, 2009 by Iceturf

[Parachromis1]

I think you could probably add brine shrimp eggs on a SW tank, and I know copepods grow in sponge and such. I'd like to see if anyone can come up with anything for a freshwater tank.

[balikiss]

I'v read about someone who had a culture of scuds (aka, river shrimp) living in their canister filter. I'm not sure if they 'trickled out' but i can't imagen they'd be hard to collect..they will also culture themselves in substrate and under plant roots. So if you dump a bunch into your tank, they will hide as best they can, but theres no way they'll all be so crafty. Although some bottom dwellers/nocturnal species will probly wipe them out pretty quick.

[Iceturf]

I'v read about someone who had a culture of scuds (aka, river shrimp) living in their canister filter. I'm not sure if they 'trickled out' but i can't imagen they'd be hard to collect..they will also culture themselves in substrate and under plant roots. So if you dump a bunch into your tank, they will hide as best they can, but theres no way they'll all be so crafty. Although some bottom dwellers/nocturnal species will probly wipe them out pretty quick.

hmm, now I would try that if I knew where to get some. Maybe a small box with some kinda thing inside to provide the organisms with a main 'hive' in the filter...

[balikiss]

lol as it turns out...i have ALOT of them lol. if you want i could ship you some for the cost of shipping, or trade for a bit of some plants you have :thumbs:

I'v read about someone who had a culture of scuds (aka, river shrimp) living in their canister filter. I'm not sure if they 'trickled out' but i can't imagen they'd be hard to collect..they will also culture themselves in substrate and under plant roots. So if you dump a bunch into your tank, they will hide as best they can, but theres no way they'll all be so crafty. Although some bottom dwellers/nocturnal species will probly wipe them out pretty quick.

hmm, now I would try that if I knew where to get some. Maybe a small box with some kinda thing inside to provide the organisms with a main 'hive' in the filter...

[Crystal]

Scuds are common in many lakes and ponds. I advise that any collected be from an unpolluted water body with no fish, as they are less likely to have a certain parasite which appears in later stages as an orange dot on their back.

As for dispensing, I would use a HOB filter (like the aquatech) with a slightly blocked sponge, so there would be some 'overflow' overtop the media pad. You would have to use something (like nylon stockings) to cover the holes around the propeller so you don't get 'scud soup'. Some would go over as they search for food, or just from the current - which could be a problem. Scuds are difficult for smaller tetras and the like, but fine for bigger fish. Though I would have a separate cultivation bucket (eg. 5g bucket with 2" of dead leaves/grasses + some twigs and an airstone), and just net some in to the HOB every morning.

You could even use an AC110 shell (need the motor to plug the hole, but it wouldn't need to be in operating condition). Use a separate (weaker) pump in the tank to provide a slower current so they don't all get washed away in the first hour. An old AC which no longer works should be a breeze to find. You wouldn't need to use the media, but would have to silicone a partial 'gate' over the overflow. Some craft mesh from any dollarstore/walmart would work. I would also add some nylon/cloth in the filter so the scuds have somehting to hang onto when not swimming, or they will all go over swiftly.

I plan to check local pools near here soon, if they have some I can net a few for you - or I know a few in Edmonton collect their own regularly. There are probably even people here who culture them.

[Powerz69]

You could even use an AC110 shell (need the motor to plug the hole, but it wouldn't need to be in operating condition). Use a separate (weaker) pump in the tank to provide a slower current so they don't all get washed away in the first hour.

Good idea! I'm instrested in doing something like this now.

[jvision]

A refugium would work great - large tank owners and SW ppl have many designs. Check out MFK and CanReef... ReefCentral for designs.

[Iceturf]

lol as it turns out...i have ALOT of them lol. if you want i could ship you some for the cost of shipping, or trade for a bit of some plants you have :thumbs:

I would very much trade you, except that I don't have enouhg plants to make it worth while in terms of shipping costs.

--

I was thinking something that was self contained within the tank (because I'm lazy), but maybe a pop bottle with a wide enough tube on the top system so they could move into the tank naturally....(specifically without me doing the moving (: )

---

Slightly off Scuds, but what about something like vinegar eels (i'm unfamiler with them)?

Edited April 22, 2009 by Iceturf

[JORG]

Scuds are common in many lakes and ponds. I advise that any collected be from an unpolluted water body with no fish, as they are less likely to have a certain parasite which appears in later stages as an orange dot on their back.

As for dispensing, I would use a HOB filter (like the aquatech) with a slightly blocked sponge, so there would be some 'overflow' overtop the media pad. You would have to use something (like nylon stockings) to cover the holes around the propeller so you don't get 'scud soup'. Some would go over as they search for food, or just from the current - which could be a problem. Scuds are difficult for smaller tetras and the like, but fine for bigger fish. Though I would have a separate cultivation bucket (eg. 5g bucket with 2" of dead leaves/grasses + some twigs and an airstone), and just net some in to the HOB every morning.

You could even use an AC110 shell (need the motor to plug the hole, but it wouldn't need to be in operating condition). Use a separate (weaker) pump in the tank to provide a slower current so they don't all get washed away in the first hour. An old AC which no longer works should be a breeze to find. You wouldn't need to use the media, but would have to silicone a partial 'gate' over the overflow. Some craft mesh from any dollarstore/walmart would work. I would also add some nylon/cloth in the filter so the scuds have somehting to hang onto when not swimming, or they will all go over swiftly.

I plan to check local pools near here soon, if they have some I can net a few for you - or I know a few in Edmonton collect their own regularly. There are probably even people here who culture them.

This certain parasite that appears as an orange dot do you know what it is and how it affects fish ?

[Iceturf]

Scuds are common in many lakes and ponds. I advise that any collected be from an unpolluted water body with no fish, as they are less likely to have a certain parasite which appears in later stages as an orange dot on their back.

As for dispensing, I would use a HOB filter (like the aquatech) with a slightly blocked sponge, so there would be some 'overflow' overtop the media pad. You would have to use something (like nylon stockings) to cover the holes around the propeller so you don't get 'scud soup'. Some would go over as they search for food, or just from the current - which could be a problem. Scuds are difficult for smaller tetras and the like, but fine for bigger fish. Though I would have a separate cultivation bucket (eg. 5g bucket with 2" of dead leaves/grasses + some twigs and an airstone), and just net some in to the HOB every morning.

You could even use an AC110 shell (need the motor to plug the hole, but it wouldn't need to be in operating condition). Use a separate (weaker) pump in the tank to provide a slower current so they don't all get washed away in the first hour. An old AC which no longer works should be a breeze to find. You wouldn't need to use the media, but would have to silicone a partial 'gate' over the overflow. Some craft mesh from any dollarstore/walmart would work. I would also add some nylon/cloth in the filter so the scuds have somehting to hang onto when not swimming, or they will all go over swiftly.

I plan to check local pools near here soon, if they have some I can net a few for you - or I know a few in Edmonton collect their own regularly. There are probably even people here who culture them.

Hmm, well I think I will experiment if I get the time. So if its not too much trouble, please let me know crystal in regards to the Scuds so I can get some (: .

Edited April 22, 2009 by Iceturf

[Crystal]

This certain parasite that appears as an orange dot do you know what it is and how it affects fish ?

There are actually two parasites, but both have very similar life-cycles. The parasites are Pomphorhynchus laevis and Polymorphus minutus, I believe the laevis is more common around here - though minutus is more common in most locations.

They are parasites which need gammarus (aka scuds) to grow to a certain stage as an intermediate host. The gammarus is then eaten by a fish in which the parasite reaches its final adult stage and begins to produce eggs, which travel with the faces into the waters and are eaten by more scuds. When growing in the scud, it collects carotens which create the yellow-orange dot and which makes it more likely to be seen and eaten. The parasite also affects the scud's brain, causing them to be more likely found in open, bright waters in which they are easily seen (it causes other effects on scuds - but there are many studies which focus on this so I won't go into it). The parasite needs a scud first, and a fish second - no other combination is known.

No other creature besides fish are known to be chosen as the "final host" - in other words, you aren't the host it is after... It simply won't work, and the parasite dies.

Here is a nice chart: http://www.u-bourgogne.fr/BIOGEOSCIENCE/im...chus_laevis.jpg

If there are no fish, then the parasite usually isn't present, so fish-less ponds are perfect to collect gammarus from. The parasite cannot reproduce without fish, it also tends to castrate the gammarus in the growth process.

As for the exact affect on fish - I am uncertain, I assume it is similar to most parasites. I will do a bit of research later.

iceturf - give me a few days to get to the ponds as they are an hours walk away. I will let you know what I find, if the birds haven't eaten them all.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Crystal

[jvision]

I once made a refugium out of an AC500 - it's pretty easy. I glued a piece of acrylic about 1/4" from the motor that was as wide as the filter chamber and about 3/4" from the regular water level. This slows the water going into the main chamber. There you can put a tonne of Java moss and your scuds (or shrimp, etc.) will grown and multiply in there, and allow some to get out into the main tank.

The slower the water goes thru the filter the better, so the actual AC500 motor may be a little much.

[jvision]

Vinegar eels live and multiply in Apple Cider Vinegar... not suitable for this project.

[JORG]

This certain parasite that appears as an orange dot do you know what it is and how it affects fish ?

There are actually two parasites, but both have very similar life-cycles. The parasites are Pomphorhynchus laevis and Polymorphus minutus, I believe the laevis is more common around here - though minutus is more common in most locations.

They are parasites which need gammarus (aka scuds) to grow to a certain stage as an intermediate host. The gammarus is then eaten by a fish in which the parasite reaches its final adult stage and begins to produce eggs, which travel with the faces into the waters and are eaten by more scuds. When growing in the scud, it collects carotens which create the yellow-orange dot and which makes it more likely to be seen and eaten. The parasite also affects the scud's brain, causing them to be more likely found in open, bright waters in which they are easily seen (it causes other effects on scuds - but there are many studies which focus on this so I won't go into it). The parasite needs a scud first, and a fish second - no other combination is known.

No other creature besides fish are known to be chosen as the "final host" - in other words, you aren't the host it is after... It simply won't work, and the parasite dies.

Here is a nice chart: http://www.u-bourgogne.fr/BIOGEOSCIENCE/im...chus_laevis.jpg

If there are no fish, then the parasite usually isn't present, so fish-less ponds are perfect to collect gammarus from. The parasite cannot reproduce without fish, it also tends to castrate the gammarus in the growth process.

As for the exact affect on fish - I am uncertain, I assume it is similar to most parasites. I will do a bit of research later.

iceturf - give me a few days to get to the ponds as they are an hours walk away. I will let you know what I find, if the birds haven't eaten them all.

Very intresting--- Thank's Crystal