trevorich Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) lights: first off, I have had the same question as a lot of folks about metal halide. turns out that metal halide and halogens are very similar. Get a chepo work light from any hard ware store for $25.00 and the bulbs are 2 for $10. Depending on your lighting requirements of course. Plants need special bulbs to thrive as do salt water tanks. rona/homedepot/totem/any other hard ware store carries 4' fl. day glo and aquarium bulbs for around $6. I've used ge's from rona for years with excellent results... the light is under your canopy so who cares what it looks like, if you don't have a canopy, they are easy to build. I use standard fl. lights on my tanks, yes the casing gets ugly but no one sees it so nyeh, i don't care. Calcium build up on your bulb cover has a simple fix, stop using it and raise your lights another 4". substrate: landscaping/garden supply stores. I just bought a 1/4 yard of 5mm road chips for $23. I asked for bags and got them free. I used 1/2 of it in my 300 gal. sand around the same price. can also get shale and other gravel very cheap. Just have to take the time to rinse it really well. bags of polished rock can be had at most hardware stores cheaper than pet stores. stands: buy the lumber and build yourself. far cheaper. also, sideboards or any other solid wood furniture where the sides are UNDER the top will hold most tanks. I have had my 120 gallon on a pine sideboard for 5 years now. solid wood for $150 at jysk (on sale). The big thing is the placement of the sides and the thickness of the wood for wieght capacity. You could also ask a welder to make a metal one for you and generally you can get it cheaper than retail. filters: sea chem makes excellent chemicals, the concentration is 5x what you normally get (one capful deals with 50 gallons of chlorine etc etc) read the labels of your chemicals to get more bang for your buck. the boss at natures corner taught me about water changes when i saw his system at work (he didn't sctually say anything but it was obvious what was happening.) I am converting an extra fx5 into a gravel vacuum with the outlet going back in the tank, this should reduce the amount of water changes I need to do. I plan on vacuuming the gravel once a week. second hand is a real good way to get what you want. check out kijiji, it's full of people selling equipment and livestock....especially those getting out of the hobby or moving. Some awesome deals to be had. I got my 300g for $800 and 2 fx 5's with a tank full of fish for $400. sold the fish and tank so 2 fx 5's for $100.00 is a damn good deal. Livestock: local breeders, fish clubs, and classifieds are a great way to go. big pet stores (petsmart, petcetra, etc etc) get lower grade fish at low prices so if you want amazing looking fish, go to your local "mom and pop" fish store. You may pay a dollar or 2 more BUT the quality is usually excellent and the fish are usually treated better....less stress means happy fish. You could also check out the buy/sell section here where a lot of good quality fish are offered on a regular basis. Do your research first though. I made this post in response to the many posts I see on here for info on cheaper products. I know a lot of you already know this. Edited June 5, 2009 by trevorich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qattarra Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I do agree with what you are presenting . Caution on the charcoal rinsing . This is a porous material that absorbs chemicals etc. It can not , to my knowledge, be just rinsed and reused. Once it absorbs it's max it can then release it back into your water causing potentialy harmful poisonings. There are ppl on here who could more clearly explain this . It is my understanding that it can be cleaned and recharged but rinsing it isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaggle Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 As far as I know you can cook charcoal and get about half of the life back but not just rinse and reuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darcy Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 As far as I know you can cook charcoal and get about half of the life back but not just rinse and reuse. I just built my own metal halide lights and well my father is a electronic technision aswell as my grandpa to you are right in the fact that they are the same lights but the problem with them from there or any other electrical place you buy to build them yourself is they are 4000 k or less and fish and corals need 6500k - 20000k so they are not getting the right uv that the sun provides but you can build it your self cheap to like i built mine which is 4 foot long with a 400 watt metal halide 14000 k,balist for it, socket, wood,reflectors,and a 2 florensent 4 foot bulbs and balist for it as well as bulbs, and two fans, and all wires, metal boxs to hold the balists which to buy the light that would do the same cost $1600 I built it for around $300 for all which includes the cost of the metal halide bulb which was $130 alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevorich Posted May 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 As far as I know you can cook charcoal and get about half of the life back but not just rinse and reuse. I just built my own metal halide lights and well my father is a electronic technision aswell as my grandpa to you are right in the fact that they are the same lights but the problem with them from there or any other electrical place you buy to build them yourself is they are 4000 k or less and fish and corals need 6500k - 20000k so they are not getting the right uv that the sun provides but you can build it your self cheap to like i built mine which is 4 foot long with a 400 watt metal halide 14000 k,balist for it, socket, wood,reflectors,and a 2 florensent 4 foot bulbs and balist for it as well as bulbs, and two fans, and all wires, metal boxs to hold the balists which to buy the light that would do the same cost $1600 I built it for around $300 for all which includes the cost of the metal halide bulb which was $130 alone I didn't know that about the lights, having never had a salt water tank. Good info, just hope some folks find useful info here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayen Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Actually metal halides as far as i know have a higher level of intensity than halogens, they aren't exactly the same, but very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darcy Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Actually metal halides as far as i know have a higher level of intensity than halogens, they aren't exactly the same, but very similar. yes thats very true not as much wattage and metal halide can penitrate below 24 inches in water where as florencents and haligens cannot sure light does but not the uv part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
African_Fever Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 If you're only using your extra FX5 for cleaning the gravel then that'll work ok for that, but if it's a filter that you're already using on your tank, then it defeats the purpose by only moving the gunk from one spot to another in the system. Water changes accomplish a lot more than just cleaning out the gunk in your system; they refresh the water and get rid of all the organics and non organics that build up in the system that water changes don't remove. Yes, there is filter media that removes many of these, but it's expensive and not reusable, and used mostly by salties where water changes are expensive (and I don't even know if they make them for fresh). With freshwater tanks, why skimp on your water changes? If you're concerned with chlorine, get yourself an aging barrel and use that to age the water ahead of time and allow the chlorine to off-gas. Charcoal is also NOT reusable (I believe you can bake it, but why chance it?). It begins leaching everything you put it in there to remove after a couple of weeks (sometimes less, depending on how much it removed), so should never be left in your aquarium. Unless you're removing medication or clearing your water after adding new driftwood, there's little purpose to always having it in your aquarium. Canadian tire and other places that have pool filters etc; these aren't even close to what you'd want for an aquarium, and aren't made for the same kind of abuse. Flow rates are completely different, and water filters used for your house are used by many as 'scrubbers' on an extra loop in a sump to help get the water crystal clear, but used alone they clog up way too fast. The pool filters are made for all the inflatable (and some hardsided) pools that are now available; they're used for the summer, and most people who use them throw them out after one summer because unless they're taken down properly they leak the next year. Running 24/7 365 days a year is a lot different than running on and off for a couple weeks over the summer. The cheapest way to do a filter is to do your own sump; they're not hard, and there's tons of people on here who've done some amazing setups. Not to mention that you could make a huge sump that could handle your tank with a very low flow rate, saving on electricity used by the sump pump. There's ghetto, and there's DIY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Some good points & tips. rona/homedepot/totem/any other hard ware store carries 4' fl. day glo and aquarium bulbs for around $6. I've used ge's from rona for years with excellent results....stop paying $40 a tube I think I have tried almost every fl. tube on the market, and IMO none of the hardware store fl. tubes come close to the natural color spectrum found in some of the lights made for the aquatic industry. Most of the standard hardware store lights give off a green or yellow color (at least to my eyes) and look quite sad compared to say a power glo/aqua-glo combo. BTW - many of the fl. tubes sold for freshwater aquariums run $20-25, not $40, and IMO are well worth the extra cost, especially when in fish only systems you can run those $20 fl. lights for 4-5 years. YMMV With regards to water changes, if you live in a city that doesn't use chloramine to treat the tap water (chlorine only) by far the most cost effective way to treat your water is via sodium thiosulfate. http://www.syndel.com/Sodium-Thiosulfate-P51C9.aspx 18.18 kg's (40 pounds) for $125 CAD is by far the best price I have found for this product in Canada. Even if you run a few thousand gallons in your fish room, most of your current fish would be dead from old age before you used 40 pounds up. There are a number of formulas posted online, such as DOSAGE: Mix 4 ounces (113.4 grams) of crystals per 1 gallon (3.8 liters) of water. Then use 1 drop per gallon. My advice would be to purchase a chlorine test kit, and then experiment as to how much it takes for your own personal water supply. Also, remember to dose for max chlorine amounts, such as in the spring & after heavy rainfall when bacteria numbers are high, and water treatment plants typically increase the amount of chlorine. Why hobbyists that reside in non chloramine areas don't use this product is beyond me. Even with chloramine treated tap water, sodium thiosulfate could be safely used if one kept their water changes at smaller amounts. (15-20%) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) dup post .... Edited May 31, 2009 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevorich Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I was wrong about the charcoal. the post on the lights: rona/home depot both have special fl. bulbs for day glo and for aquariums. are these bulbs not up to snuff? i have 2 fx 5's on my 300 gallon with a 3rd (extra) fx5 that i am setting up as a seperate gravel vacuum. My other fx5 is on the 120gal in the livingroom. hope thats cleared up now. water changes are massively important to the health of your tank, your fish and your plants. my goal with the gravel cleaner is to reduce the amount of wasted water through gravel cleaning by using a more efficient tool for the job. yes, the filters at canadian tire for pools is not meant for an aquarium. they do a wonderful job of augmenting your current system however. Further, with some diy research and aquarium experience, a person could make their own filter using less expensive materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevorich Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Some good points & tips. rona/homedepot/totem/any other hard ware store carries 4' fl. day glo and aquarium bulbs for around $6. I've used ge's from rona for years with excellent results....stop paying $40 a tube I think I have tried almost every fl. tube on the market, and IMO none of the hardware store fl. tubes come close to the natural color spectrum found in some of the lights made for the aquatic industry. Most of the standard hardware store lights give off a green or yellow color (at least to my eyes) and look quite sad compared to say a power glo/aqua-glo combo. BTW - many of the fl. tubes sold for freshwater aquariums run $20-25, not $40, and IMO are well worth the extra cost, especially when in fish only systems you can run those $20 fl. lights for 4-5 years. YMMV With regards to water changes, if you live in a city that doesn't use chloramine to treat the tap water (chlorine only) by far the most cost effective way to treat your water is via sodium thiosulfate. http://www.syndel.com/Sodium-Thiosulfate-P51C9.aspx 18.18 kg's (40 pounds) for $125 CAD is by far the best price I have found for this product in Canada. Even if you run a few thousand gallons in your fish room, most of your current fish would be dead from old age before you used 40 pounds up. There are a number of formulas posted online, such as DOSAGE: Mix 4 ounces (113.4 grams) of crystals per 1 gallon (3.8 liters) of water. Then use 1 drop per gallon. My advice would be to purchase a chlorine test kit, and then experiment as to how much it takes for your own personal water supply. Also, remember to dose for max chlorine amounts, such as in the spring & after heavy rainfall when bacteria numbers are high, and water treatment plants typically increase the amount of chlorine. Why hobbyists that reside in non chloramine areas don't use this product is beyond me. Even with chloramine treated tap water, sodium thiosulfate could be safely used if one kept their water changes at smaller amounts. (15-20%) I read that article, do you know of any suppliers of this product in alberta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) rona/home depot both have special fl. bulbs for day glo and for aquariums. are these bulbs not up to snuff? IMO, no, but I guess it all boils down to what you personally prefer for lighting. As far as the sodium thiosulfate, I don't know of any suppliers here in AB. Keep in mind that if/when dealing with chloramine treated tap water, and larger water changes, products such as Seachem Prime are still the safest way to fly. Edited June 5, 2009 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baos Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 cut too many corners and you might find yourself with poor results. But something to think about. It is possible to run a tank without water changes or filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevorich Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 rona/home depot both have special fl. bulbs for day glo and for aquariums. are these bulbs not up to snuff? IMO, no, but I guess it all boils down to what you personally prefer for lighting. As far as the sodium thiosulfate, I don't know of any suppliers here in AB. Keep in mind that if/when dealing with chloramine treated tap water, and larger water changes, products such as Seachem Prime are still the safest way to fly. seachem makes the best chemicals by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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