heff Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 I've got a corkscrew vallisneria that's been sending up new leaves then dying back for what feels like months now. It sends out runners and creates new child plants (which grow and die back as well). I've been using root tabs for a couple months but didn't start dosing liquid fert until a few weeks ago (I wonder why my house plants do about as well as my aquarium plants...) Tank details below... questions / comments / suggestions welcome! ___________________________________ 10 gal 2mm black gravel 14W aqua-glo (2-3 months old) 26-27 Celsius plants: crypt wendtii tropica corkscrew val christmas moss on malaysian driftwood a single surviving blade of dwarf hairgrass (eleocharis parvula) inhabitants: 6 guppies 2 kuhli loaches 2 amano shrimp 1 wood shrimp 1 african dwarf frog dosing flourish 15 drops weekly flourish root tabs in the substrate under the vals 30% - 40% water change weekly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishclubgirl Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 When you say Flourish, do you mean the fertiliser or the excel?? Vals are not fans of excel. Please let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heff Posted July 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 It is not Flourish Excel, just the Flourish fert; I've also heard that vals do not appreciate it added in any quantity, although some can become aclimatized to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvianAquatics Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 I know this is stupid, but how bright are your lights? Maybe your light aren't bright enough or it's time to clean or get new lights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heff Posted July 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 (edited) @AvianAquatics - Being new, there's no such thing as stupid suggestions. While I believe the tank is clean enough, there is some permanent (I've scrubbed the heck out of this with vinegar) residue on the glass plate between the light and the water, but the plant might feel differently. The bulb is only a few months old at the most. It's rated at 18,000K so I THINK it's bright enough. I do have discoloration in my water due to the leech of tannins from my driftwood, but the vals have been growing/dying this way before I got the driftwood. Edited July 12, 2010 by heff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzz30tt Posted July 12, 2010 Report Share Posted July 12, 2010 I'm not a planted guy but that would seem to me to be the issue right there, Most plants do well at around 6500K which is the bulb's color temperature not it's brightness or wattage. I run 10,000k and actinic bulbs and neither are ideal for growing plants. That's the realm of the good ol' 6500K bulbs at the proper wattage. Like i said, not a planted guy but seems to be my take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronosdelsol Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Can you provide more details? What type of substrate? How long is the lighting period. Does it get any direct sunlight. Are you injecting any co2? What is your maintenance schedule like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvianAquatics Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 I'm not a planted guy but that would seem to me to be the issue right there, Most plants do well at around 6500K which is the bulb's color temperature not it's brightness or wattage. I run 10,000k and actinic bulbs and neither are ideal for growing plants. That's the realm of the good ol' 6500K bulbs at the proper wattage. Like i said, not a planted guy but seems to be my take on it. I agree with jzz30tt. The best kelvin for growing plants is under 10,000K and 20,000k is for marine corals and plants. Also sometimes I get plants that would keeps on dying no matter what. I had some Rotala Sp. Green and Cardamine lyrata that would rot from the bottom leaves up and I couldn't seem to find the solution so I threw them away. If you can't fix it no matter what then maybe consider finding some healthier vals from another source :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catshanon Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 You will need bulbs that emit light in the photosynthetic spectrum (red and blue). The bulbs meant for plants usually are labeld as 6700K. Apart from the spectrum, the intensity and penetration of the light is also very important. I had read that the 'twists' in the corkscrew val will fall apart if the light is not very high. The brighter the light, the more compact the plants will stay. You might also want to clear up the water and have the splash guard absolutely clean. A lot of light is lost due to refraction and also absorbed by particles floating in the water. I run my T5s without any splash guard (although having a guard is a very good idea). Raj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heff Posted July 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) I agree with jzz30tt. The best kelvin for growing plants is under 10,000K and 20,000k is for marine corals and plants. Also sometimes I get plants that would keeps on dying no matter what. I had some Rotala Sp. Green and Cardamine lyrata that would rot from the bottom leaves up and I couldn't seem to find the solution so I threw them away. If you can't fix it no matter what then maybe consider finding some healthier vals from another source :/ There are many opinions on the kelvin rating and it's my understanding that it matters very little; it's the color spectrum that's important. This Val might be the plant I toss away and forget about, even though the healthy leaves look so good. In terms of extra details: - no CO2 - black gravel, approx. 2mm - light timing - 5 hours on, 1 hour off, 5 hours on - no direct/indirect sunlight Edited July 13, 2010 by heff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 There's one way to figure out if the Kelvin rating matters - change the bulb and see if these guys know what they're talking about. I too have had poor success growing plants without the majority of my bulbs being under 10,000K. Also, regarding the glass... because it seems imposible to clean a lot of those things, I almost always take it out so my plants get all the light they can. As long as you don't have much in the way of surface aggitation, you shouldn't get much evaporation into your light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heff Posted July 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) Here's a comparison from Hagen of my bulb (Aqua-Glo, left) versus Sun-Glo and Power-Glo. On Hagen's site, they list the Sun-Glo as an all-purpose bulb for tank inhabitants only, not for plant growth. There's a Crystal Glass up the road from me; I think I might reconsider having them replace the glass for me. Edited July 13, 2010 by heff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronosdelsol Posted July 14, 2010 Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 Did you transplant the val within the last 2 months? When the older leaves die back, do you remove them? If so, how do you do it? Is there any rot at the crown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heff Posted July 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2010 No, I haven't transplanted it. When the leaves begin to die, I usually leave them until I decide they're a lost cause, at which point I remove them by snipping them with scissors above the crown, which doesn't appear to be rotting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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