Mighty Prawn Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I've been reading up on this, and am curious what people think of some of the options out there. Does anyone use filter inserts that "absorb/remove" nitrates, nitrites and ammonia? Does anyone use any liquid additives that do the same? Can you "instantly cycle" a new tank, by filling it with water from an established tank, and putting the biomax from the established tank filter into the new tank? It seems like that would be possible, but I could be wrong. And I want to know for sure before I go this route with my 33 hex which seems to be cycling slow. If nitrates and nitrites are oddly high, even after a double dose of cycle and 30% water changes 2 days in a row, would you guys reccomend a large water change, like 75%? My nitrates/nitrites were both off the chart in a 15 gallon tank, and did just that, 2 water changes in 2 days, double dose of cycle, and after that, on the third day, they are still off the chart. I was also hoping I could use my established biomax insert to help in this process. I heard taking a handful of gravel from an established tank also speeds this up. But I already have a piece of driftwood in this new tank that was from my old tank, so I would have thought that would be enough bacteria. Let me know what you guys think. I want to get these water problems under check quickly as I have some fish that desperately need a move. -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgetwaiter Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Okay there's a couple things you need to do here. Take the Cycle and thow it as far away as you can manage. It doesn't do what you think it does and at this point is causing you more problems. Cycle does not contain any live bacteria, if you look at the bottle they do not claim it does either. Yes, the little goof at the store said it does, but it doesn't. What Cycle does do is break down organics into ammonia and such faster. In a tank with no bacteria cultures established, this is baaaaad. Your bacteria culture can't keep pace with the level ammonia being thrown at it, it is being converted to nitrite but as the nitrite munchers take longer to estbalish you are getting uncrontrolable nitrite levels. A word on double dosing.... DON'T The idea that if 5ml is good then 10ml is better is a common error and will lead you into all sorts of problems. Can you "instantly cycle" a new tank, by filling it with water from an established tank, and putting the biomax from the established tank filter into the new tank? It seems like that would be possible, but I could be wrong. And I want to know for sure before I go this route with my 33 hex which seems to be cycling slow. Yes this is the best way to do it. Keep in mind though that "established" can weeks or months. If you have some really well seeded bio media then you may as well move it over, otherwise leave things alone. It shouldn't take more than a week or 10 days to sort itself out, then do a water change to lower the nitrates any you are on your way. There is no fast way to cycle a tank properly without established media or a product that is not available in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsmith Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 When I was cycling my 40g I started off by dosing with ammonia and it seemed to be coming along okay. Then I took a couple of dirty, i.e. in-use, filters and squeezed them into the tank and added one to the filter. It made a mess but it seemed to cycle the tank within days. I'm pretty sure "old" water doesn't do much since the bacteria primarily lives on things not in the water column. Also, I don't think a handful of gravel or one piece of driftwood would do much, though they wouldn't hurt. Filter crud and established filter biomedia is definitely the best cycle jump-starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 When i start new tanks i move a couple sponges from an established filter and put them into the new tank's filter. Then i put a cople handfuls of used gravel in ther also(if your gravels are different put the used gravel into some pantyhose and place it by the filter). By doing this I have never had any problems after i added fish. Ofcourse i wouldn't full stock a tank right away using this method but i works for adding a couple fish. But i agree throw away the cycle. Its a waste of money. There is a product Biospira that is supposed to actually work but I dont' think its in canada yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Or, plant the heck out of the tank with lots - I mean no more gravel showing - of stem plants and other fast-growers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seajays Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) Septo Bac and pure ammonia has worked great for me. Started my 65 yesterday. http://crlcaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=82&...a49891325f94f3b Edited January 6, 2006 by seajays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfnut Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hmmm, I usually justs put a sponge in from a cycled tank into the new tank's filter and some salt. Never had a problem so far... Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 (edited) Nitrosomas spp. and Nitrobacter spp. do not really reside in the water column. They will colonize any suitable place where they can get their food, ie ammonia and nitrite. This is primarily in the high-flow areas, ie filter biomedia and filter supply/return pipes to a lesser degree. The water, the gravel, the driftwood, etc from an old tank cannot hurt a new tank, but do not really aid in the maturation of it. If you use an undergravel filter, or a RUGF, then the "filter media" is your substrate. Only if you were planning on taking substrate from one UGF and placing it into a brand new tank with another UGF, would you get a similar experience of instant cycling. In short, for most Canadians in the hobby at this point, there are only a few ways to cycle a tank. Seed the new filter with old filter media. This is achieved by squeezing established filter media over top of the new filter media, thus transposing some of the bacteria-rich filter gunk. A better method would be to use part of the established filter biomedia and place it upstream of the new media, allowing the established bacteria to spread. Fishless cycling entails dosing ammonia up to 5ppm, and kickstarting the bacterial colonization. This method requires close observation of all three titres over the duration of the dosing, but works quite well and very fast in some cases. Run the new filter and an old filter in conjunction for several months. I've had to do this myself due to an emergency tank leak before. Not recommended as the new filter bacteria population will be less as the established filter bacteria population takes some of the workload. The introduction of fish must be slow because of this. Cycle with some hardy fish. Its not something you want to do, nor should you do, as nitrite and ammonia are toxic to fish and would be inhumane to do so, but it would not be a complete list without it. Biospira is the only product on the market that can instantly cycle a new tank. There is a freshwater and a saltwater formula. I believe border regulations prohibit the import of live bacteria yada yada yada. :bang1: We cannot get this in Canada, but if you do make a roadtrip to the states and manage to get your hands on some, it'd be worth its weight in gold. Just make sure to to observe the expiry date and keep it refrigerated edit: That septic bacteria looks interesting. I will have to look into that. Edited January 5, 2006 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toirtis Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Biospira is the only product on the market that can instantly cycle a new tank. There is a freshwater and a saltwater formula. I believe border regulations prohibit the import of live bacteria yada yada yada. We cannot get this in Canada, Actually, you can have it shipped in....but...1) it ends up being so expensive, it's not worth it; 2) it usually takes a week to clear customs, by which point it's dead. Fishless cycling can also be done with an indirect ammonia surce, like a nice big cocktail prawn....raising the tank temp to 81ºF and adding some colonised media to the filter will shave about half the time off the cycle. Or, you can do as I do....steal some mature, colonised media from multiple filters, completely filling the new filter without significantly impacting any of the donor tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 bacteria thief! Yeah, I know that individuals can order in, but as far as a pet store importing it, I thought there were regulations with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOSStile Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 I have cycled a 90 gallon to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites in 11-12 days with septobac and ammonia. You can buy ammonia at Safeway, the clear bottle not the green is what you use. Using old water in a new tank isn't worth the trouble. "Seeding" the tank with used filter material and substrate is more effective as long as some bio- load is present to sustain the existing bacteria. Oh and throw away the Cycle like the other people told you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toirtis Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 bacteria thief! You know, I rather like that title. :smokey: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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