The FISHLESS CYCLE

[HOSStile]

Update -ham- -ham- I went into Safeway today and found the ammonia, Safeway general cleaner CLEAR not the GREEN and it goes for $2.58 for 1.8 litres. And hey just down the aisle a ways I found Septo-Bac by Kiwi. It sells for $5.99 for 8 packets which should be enough to treat the Atlantic Ocean. It probably is cheaper at Wal-Mart but the money I would have spent on gas probably evens it out. Harold

[mykiss]

This is a great sticky!!

I tried the fishless cycle once.....I was using the nitrite test kit to try to detect ammonia......trust me it won't pick up a thing.....well at least within the first week or so. I just kept adding ammonia and adding and adding thinking that I would stop when I see the nitrite test kit change color.....then after dumping about half a litre in a 27 gallon tank it started to smell strong!!! ooopppsss.... I learnt quick what I was doing wrong. So it goes to say....get the Ammonia AND nitrite test kit when doing this.

[fishfiend]

Just in case you are wondering what this product is used for: If you have a backed up septic tank full of all kinds of waste (courtesy of your house's toilets), you dig it up, open it, and drop in one of these packages of Septo Bac which will break down the waste.

If it has enough biological enzymes to break down that much waste, handling something like cycling a puny little 120 gallon tank compared to a septic tank should be incredibly efficient.

Ok, here is how I personally (now after a very experienced man told me how) cycle my tanks!!! You take as much water from an already established tank during a routine water change, and put it in your new tank and fill it with the rest fresh water! Also the VERY best thing you can do is swap filters with a established tank and you let it run for like 2-4 days and BAM you put you fishy freinds in!!!! And the best part is NO CHEMICALS!!!!!

[Toirtis]

Ok, here is how I personally (now after a very experienced man told me how) cycle my tanks!!! You take as much water from an already established tank during a routine water change, and put it in your new tank and fill it with the rest fresh water!

Helpful, but only a bit, as very little nitrifying bacteria is actually suspended within the water column.

Also the VERY best thing you can do is swap filters with a established tank and you let it run for like 2-4 days and BAM you put you fishy freinds in!!!! And the best part is NO CHEMICALS!!!!!

But what does that established tank then do for an established filter during during those 4 days?

What you can do, assuming you have access to it (often readily available from a fellow local aquarist), is to swap a good 30% media in from an established filter, which will help immensely, and even circumvent a cycle, so long as you add livestock slowly. Alternatively, you can run a second filter on an established aquarium for a good 20 days, then simply transfer that filter to the new tank.

[HOSStile]

Just in case you are wondering what this product is used for: If you have a backed up septic tank full of all kinds of waste (courtesy of your house's toilets), you dig it up, open it, and drop in one of these packages of Septo Bac which will break down the waste.

If it has enough biological enzymes to break down that much waste, handling something like cycling a puny little 120 gallon tank compared to a septic tank should be incredibly efficient.

Ok, here is how I personally (now after a very experienced man told me how) cycle my tanks!!! You take as much water from an already established tank during a routine water change, and put it in your new tank and fill it with the rest fresh water! Also the VERY best thing you can do is swap filters with a established tank and you let it run for like 2-4 days and BAM you put you fishy freinds in!!!! And the best part is NO CHEMICALS!!!!!

Like Christian said, and what is the bacteria in the used filter media going to eat until you put in the fish to create a bioload?You may as well fill a tank with dechlorinated water, put fish in and all will be well, right up to the first ammonia spike and if they survive that, the nitrite spike will get them. Putting a bacterial culture in clean water with no nutrients for the bacteria to consume and then grow is just about doing the same thing. I just cycled a 30 gal. for a friend, by doing this, I put four feeder goldfish in the tank, 2 days later and daily after that I squeezed the good good brown liquid from one of my AC500s into the new filter media and after one week had ammonia and nitrite levels of 0.Now the feeder goldfish are going into my pond and my friend can start GRADUAL STOCKING of the fish he wants to keep.

[fishfiend]

Just in case you are wondering what this product is used for: If you have a backed up septic tank full of all kinds of waste (courtesy of your house's toilets), you dig it up, open it, and drop in one of these packages of Septo Bac which will break down the waste.

If it has enough biological enzymes to break down that much waste, handling something like cycling a puny little 120 gallon tank compared to a septic tank should be incredibly efficient.

Ok, here is how I personally (now after a very experienced man told me how) cycle my tanks!!! You take as much water from an already established tank during a routine water change, and put it in your new tank and fill it with the rest fresh water! Also the VERY best thing you can do is swap filters with a established tank and you let it run for like 2-4 days and BAM you put you fishy freinds in!!!! And the best part is NO CHEMICALS!!!!!

Like Christian said, and what is the bacteria in the used filter media going to eat until you put in the fish to create a bioload?You may as well fill a tank with dechlorinated water, put fish in and all will be well, right up to the first ammonia spike and if they survive that, the nitrite spike will get them. Putting a bacterial culture in clean water with no nutrients for the bacteria to consume and then grow is just about doing the same thing. I just cycled a 30 gal. for a friend, by doing this, I put four feeder goldfish in the tank, 2 days later and daily after that I squeezed the good good brown liquid from one of my AC500s into the new filter media and after one week had ammonia and nitrite levels of 0.Now the feeder goldfish are going into my pond and my friend can start GRADUAL STOCKING of the fish he wants to keep.

Actually we have done this with 4 tanks and NO fish loss, but whatever you think is right... go hard!!! I personally do NOT like adding chemicals and we have lost less fish doing it this way than we did doing it the "normal" way... I also will NEVER add amonia to our tanks!!! fish or no fish!!!

As for what the other tank does with the new filter... the fish and water from that tank establish it quite fast... the bacteria continues to eat off the bio filter for a few days and then you add some fish (and YES do it slowly to avoid spikes of any kind) and the bacteia will then feed on theire waste.

Yes you can also put your new filter on an established tank and get it ready that way b4 putting it on your new tank... we too were sceptical of this method so we tried it on the small tank first and when it worked did it on our 90 gallon and it worked... The best thing is it works fast so if you have a big problem with a tank and need to move fish FAST I personally feel this is the way to go.

BTW We have had cichlid for 2 years and they have ACTUALLY never been happier then they are now with absolutly NO chemicals with exception of aqurium salt!!!! It's only a suggestion though!!!

Edited May 31, 2007 by fishfiend

[Osprey]

I just snag some old filter media when I start a new tank. The water is irrelevant. Did you take the time to test the cycling process in your tank, or just wing it and assume that everything was fine because the fish survived? When I was a kid, we always cycled with fish, and they lived through it, but that didn't mean it was best for them.

No-one should be adding chemicals to a freshwater tank on a regular basis, either, unless they require heavy ferts in the water column for their plants... may I ask why you've been adding salt? Most people don't bother with that, either. Unless you're adding a lot of it, it isn't likely to make a huge difference to your water chemistry. Waste of time.

[HOSStile]

Just keeping this friendly but you have not answered my question. What is the point of seeding a new aquarium with used filter material and then leaving it for a few days with no bioload (fish poop) for the bacteria in the filter to live on?

Lets keep this simple.

Fish less cycling

You put in pure ammonia no additives same as bunch of fish pooping up a storm.

You get a ammonia spike of course

You add Septo bac which is bacteria culture, which convert ammonia into nitrites

6-7 days later you get Nitrite spike.

4-6 days later you get 0 Ammonia 0 Nitrites some Nitrates

No fish are harmed in the cycling of this tank.

No other chemicals are ever added other than salt or meds.

Yes Ammonia is a chemical but so is what comes out of the fishes rear end.

And as Christian stated there is very little bacteria in the water so why transfer it along with possible parasites or desease over to a new tank????

Edited May 31, 2007 by HOSStile

[seajays]

HOSStile, You are exactly right. I have done 4 tanks just as you said without any problems.

[Toirtis]

Actually we have done this with 4 tanks and NO fish loss, but whatever you think is right... go hard!!! I personally do NOT like adding chemicals and we have lost less fish doing it this way than we did doing it the "normal" way...

If you look at what I suggested, it involves no chemicals whatsoever.

I also will NEVER add amonia to our tanks!!! fish or no fish!!!

Of course, although manufactured, the ammonia Harold spoke of is, on a molecular level, basically identical to that produced by fish waste and other decomposing organic matter.

As for what the other tank does with the new filter... the fish and water from that tank establish it quite fast... the bacteria continues to eat off the bio filter for a few days and then you add some fish (and YES do it slowly to avoid spikes of any kind) and the bacteia will then feed on theire waste.

Sorry, lost me there.

Yes you can also put your new filter on an established tank and get it ready that way b4 putting it on your new tank... we too were sceptical of this method so we tried it on the small tank first and when it worked did it on our 90 gallon and it worked... The best thing is it works fast so if you have a big problem with a tank and need to move fish FAST I personally feel this is the way to go.

Precisely what I suggest whenever someone has an established aquarium that they can do this with.

BTW We have had cichlid for 2 years and they have ACTUALLY never been happier then they are now with absolutly NO chemicals with exception of aqurium salt!!!! It's only a suggestion though!!!

No dechlorinator either? If so, you can get away with that for now, but when the city eventually (likely sooner than later) switches from chlorine to chloramine, that will not be a luxury you will have.

Just out of curiosity, why do you use salt?

[Toirtis]

Just keeping this friendly but you have not answered my question. What is the point of seeding a new aquarium with used filter material and then leaving it for a few days with no bioload (fish poop) for the bacteria in the filter to live on?

This is correct...without something to feed the bacteria, they will begin to die, and although remaining bacteria will feed from the decomposing matter of thier predecessors, the overall population of the bacteria will decrease by a good percentage over even 2-3 days.

And as Christian stated there is very little bacteria in the water so why transfer it along with possible parasites or desease over to a new tank????

Well, to be fair, it is likely that any parasites/viruses/pathogens present in the water column will also have some presence in the filter media, so excluding the water will not do much there, but transferring a significant percentage (more than 10%-20%) of old water is a fair bit of work for very little gain.

[Qattarra]

I have read and previously posted, that 75% of the ammonia produced by a fish comes through it's gills the rest through it's wastes. I mention this because I would imagine it's pretty pure stuff, as would the ammonia you add in the fishless cycle. IMO the seeded fishless cycle is the best way to go, my tanks are usually ready for stocking in 1-2 weeks.

[Sam Chicklets]

I regularly cycle a filter on an established tank, fill a new tank with 1/2 aged water 1/2 new water put in some plants transfer the filter and the fish within a few hours and don't have a problem. Mind you I don't overstock the new tank either, it is usualy some fry or a breeding pair.

[RD.]

If one uses a filter with established bio media, and as long as the pH, TDS, etc are similar, the water that one adds is irrelevant. If you have chloramine treated tap water, a large water change with an appropriate water conditioner (such as Prime or Cloram-X) will supply enough ammonia to feed the bio bacteria until the tank is fully stocked.

[trevorich]

Personally, depending on the tank size of course, I set up my new tank. Fill it with water. Get the temperature stable.

Then use it as a rinse sink for my filter sponge/foam from my other tanks (using a new filter on the new tank) during maintenance. The bacteria spread, the biological mass breaks down and feeds them. I find I can be ready to start adding fish within a week. I also pour the water from the filter into the new tank to help jump start the cycle.

I add permanent fish a couple at a time, wait a couple of days, add more. Till its stocked the way i want it. Been doing it this way for about 20 years with no problems so far.