WJ kills fish

[wandj]

Anyone see the article in the Edmonton Sun "Buyer angry as flying fish die"?

It's about Aquarium Illusions shipping some very rare saltwaters to a guy in Calgary. Fish were popsicles on arrival. 2 hour flight.

Same exact thing happened to me exactly a month ago.

I had some Salmon Silver Aro's (remember I was trying to get those?) shipped from Kelowna. 2 hour flight. Dead. Box was cold, water was cold, heat pack not even giving off heat anymore.

I tried to put in a claim.

Getting a run-around.

They still won't tell me what happened or how this happened. Won't give me any answers.

So, just like the story in the paper, I just sent my story to the Alberta SPCA as well.

Makes me sick they are still killing fish and don't give a sh*t.

They haven't done a thing to ensure they don't keep killing animals.

Also, my fish were not the only thing they "lost". There was a lady in the office with me who had 2 puppies "missing". She was from Sherwood Park I think. I wonder if they killed her dogs too.

[TheGr8Blade]

Cargo hold usually bounces at the zero mark. If it is colder can drop even more. They usually don't fly animals in cargo from the beginning of November to the beginning of the folllowing February (approx.) due to how cold it gets. I guess it would be a buyer beware situation.

Very sad story about the fish and 2 missing puppies.

[Tanker]

If the heat packs were cold as well, I would question THAT and not the plane. Even a normally insulated box should not drop 'that' much during a two hour flight without a heat source. I'd say it's the packing, not the shipper, but that is completely my opinion.

[Froggie]

Even a normally insulated box should not drop 'that' much during a two hour flight without a heat source. I'd say it's the packing, not the shipper, but that is completely my opinion.

Might be a combination, I've heard of packages being left outside for a period before they're loaded on the plane. Shipping tropical fish, especially in the winter, always carries some risk. Things sometimes just happen. *shrugs* I doubt anyone was willfully trying to kill the fish.

[midgetwaiter]

If the heat packs were cold as well, I would question THAT and not the plane. Even a normally insulated box should not drop 'that' much during a two hour flight without a heat source. I'd say it's the packing, not the shipper, but that is completely my opinion.

More likely the cargo handling than anything else like Froggie says. Stuff gets off the planes quickly but then it can sit on the ramp for quite a while before it gets moved to the correct place. On loading can be even worse. All airlines seem to have their moments as well, IME Westjet is actually pretty good compared to others

Working at a larger LFS / importer I am all too familiar with this, it's really terrible sometimes.

[Toirtis]

Correct...something is (forgive the pun) fishy here....I have shipped hundreds of boxes of fish and reptiles, even during winter, and properly packed, the boxes should hold heat for 10+ hours....something is wrong here...either an error packing, improper and/or excessively long ground handling, or we are missing some important facts.

[Vapor]

I too would be more interested in the supplier and how they were packaged. You can't blame an airline for how cold it's cargo hold gets.

[wandj]

Let me provide some more details. I see that if I don't, things are getting off tangent.

WJ told me that they only ship animals in their "pressurized and heated cargo hold". This is a separate area that is just as comfortable to be in as the cabin. I was told this TWICE by WJ at 2 different shipping dates.

Another point, they LOST my fish. I was to pick them up at 6pm. I waited around for a couple of hours and told they probably were not taken off the plane and went to Vancouver and I could come back the next day when the plane was back in Edmonton. Of course I told the guy at the counter they would be dead by then, but there was nothing I could do. So I left. I live 1.5 hours away from Edmonton. About 15 minutes from my home, I got a call saying they "found" my fish and they were at the Cargo bldg. The guy told me they could send them out to me via cab but I would have to pay the cab $125, or I could turn around and come back. I turned around and went back. I arrived back at the cargo blg at 9:20pm. Opened up the box and fish were cold and very dead.

I can only figure that they were NOT put in the proper cargo area (heated and pressurized) and/or they were left outside on a ramp for a VERY long time. It was -15C that day.

Hope this explains things a bit more.

Edited April 6, 2006 by wandj

[Vallisneria]

So are you angry with WestJet or the company you bought the fish from?

From the sounds of it it seems like it was westjets fault. Not too sure the fish company would do much about that.

[Vapor]

This info would have been nice at the start of the thread. No offense.

[syno321]

I worked for a major airline for 6.5 years and can tell you a few facts about the cargo handling. WJ flies Boeing 737 aircraft which have 2 cargo holds, one in the front and one in the tail. Typically the rear hold is not heated, and the front one has air circulated from the cabin through it, so it stays just about as warm as the cabin. My guess is that one of two things happened, either the box was loaded in the rear hold, or, that the box sat on the ramp in the elements for an extended period by the handling company before the scheduled departure. My guess would be the second option.

[wandj]

Ok, my point was that I lost fish in a very similar fashion to the the guy in Calgary. I didn't realize some ppl wanted so many details.

The point in my first post was my anger at the AIRLINE, not my shipper.

I guess I could spent half an hour typing the whole story with every detail, but I really don't have the time, I'm sorry.

WJ still has not told me what happened with my case.

As for the guy in Calgary, who is the reason why I started this post, how can WJ mess up a 2 hour flight from Edmonton to Calgary? Aquarium Illusions are not a bunch of idiots. I trust they know how to pack fish. From what I read in the paper, the fish were not "lost" like mine were.

His case is much worse than mine.

[aquatica]

After reading all the replies I have to think that the problem is not the arline but the shipper. After having shipped plants & fish in about every type of weather for oiver 15years, I find the fact that the heat packs were cold very unusual. The trick with heat packs is that they require air to activate, so if placed into a sealed box with little"breathing" room the heat back remains unactivated. If after the heat packs were taken out of the box and placed on the counter you will find that it will again become quite warm. Best solution is; when shipping fish start off by opening the heat pack, then catch fish....and always leave a bit of "breathing" room for the heat pack.

Hope this helps save a few fishes

Rudy

[midgetwaiter]

WJ still has not told me what happened with my case.

As for the guy in Calgary, who is the reason why I started this post, how can WJ mess up a 2 hour flight from Edmonton to Calgary? Aquarium Illusions are not a bunch of idiots. I trust they know how to pack fish. From what I read in the paper, the fish were not "lost" like mine were.

His case is much worse than mine.

The flight from Edmonton to Calgary is under an hour, just about anything should be okay with that. Not many people do that though, by the time you get through all the messing around getting on and off the plane, luggage etc you only save 20 minutes vs driving. Yes I actually timed it once. Same thing with shipping cargo, dealing with the ground handlers at each end takes quite a while and in the end that is where the mistakes are made.

Nobody has expressed any compassion for what you went through and those of us who have been through this many many times should have. I suppose we were just surprised that you didn't expect it, we've all come to. I'd bet that one in ten or twelve live animal shipments end up like this.

[Toirtis]

The trick with heat packs is that they require air to activate,

Ah, but the trick is to use gel heat packs, as they do not require air....but to be fair, I have done some very exhaustive tests with both the gel and regular heat packs...properly packed (and unopened) quality shipping boxes remained at an interior temperature of no less than 18ºC for no less than a full 11 hours...sheltered from the wind, in my backyard, when the outdoor temp was steady between -22ºC and -27ºC.

My conclusion is that something went seriously wrong somewhere, and it was not just from the fish being in unheated cargo.

The flight from Edmonton to Calgary is under an hour, ... Same thing with shipping cargo, dealing with the ground handlers at each end takes quite a while and in the end that is where the mistakes are made.

Yes, particularly as most shipments must be with the cargo guys no less than 2 hours prior to flight time, and usually take about 45-60 minutes to be available after the flight lands.....so a grand total of say 4 hours, plus the 1 hour from AI to the airport, and perhaps 30 minutes between packing and leaving the shop.