a1foxes Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 I guess I've commented about this before, but it seems all the precautions I can muster can't prevent it. I keep 'quarantine' tanks for new fish. I have lots of space, so I've made a habit of doing this. Saves my other fish right? When a new batch has been in the tank a month, then i farm them out to wherever. I clean the tank heavily, coppersafe and salt it, crank the heat for 2 weeks before the next water change, then its another full 2 weeks before i put anything in the tank. I make damn good and sure theres not little buggies in there when new fish go in, and the water is cycled and safe. Sure enough, I bought $300 plus worth of fish from one place, put everything in the one tank. Compatible species, no issue there at all. 2 croaked the next day and I got them replaced, but then, at about day 10 they start dying. Day 13 and the first signs outward signs of ich. I know without a doubt it came in with the fish, but now I've lost over $200 worth that the store wont replace because of a 3-day rule thing. I know not everyone is honest about why fish die, I know not everyone is as vigilant with new fish etc, so I understand why some places might refuse to replace croakies. On the other hand, some people who know their way around and do everything right, get screwed. I'm so pissed I may never set foot in the place again. Its the second time it happened from that same place- to me, and once to a friend as well. Never had the problem with fish from other places, even 'tender' ones, so yes I am a bit miffed today. Don't suppose there is anything I can do about it, other than taking my business elsewhere in the future? People ask me why, with all the fish i have, I don't have central/sump system. Well this is why- at least I only lost the fish I bought, but I"m still out a few hundred bucks.. :pff: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Seahorse Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Bummer! Sorry to hear that! :cry: I too have had fish from lfs with it. They claimed it comes with stress, and is in all fish. So I quit going to that store.......... Thats all you can do................ Not all lfs stores are that way , but some are................... Don't let it get you down, just change where you buy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 OUCH! The only suggestion I would have is to buy fewer fish at a time. Even on a fully cycled tank, adding a lot of biomass can knock the biofilter off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichthyosporidium Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Most stores offer the 72 hour clause because anything beyond 72 hours is beyond their control. Disease is par for the course and can never be fully eliminated. Ich is one of those "lottery" type infestations because it can go undetected for long periods of time. The normal incubation period of Ich is 2 weeks on average. However, Ich can also go through a couple of life cycles undetected. This means that an infected tank could carry Ich for a month or two and not know it is there. It is a tough position for LFS to quarrantine their livestock. One one hand, they don't want disease giving them a bad reputaion. On the other hand, LFS are a buisness and aquatics are very expensive to mantain and a quick turnover is the nature of retail buisness. It has been sheer luck that other stores have not infected you with Ich. Maybe it is because you deal with the one shop the most and the more times you buy from a shop, the more likely you are to have a disease infect your tank(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1foxes Posted August 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 OUCH!The only suggestion I would have is to buy fewer fish at a time. Even on a fully cycled tank, adding a lot of biomass can knock the biofilter off. Well, 12 -1 inch size fish should be ok in a cycled 20 gallon, especially since they were way more crowded than that where they came from. No food waste, and I syphon for leftovers every 2 days. I use extra filtration on all my tanks, twice as much as they need typically. Like I've always said, I'm very fussy and don't leave much to chance anymore. I sterilize everything I buy, and if I move anything from tank to tank as well. Germs/bugs dont like me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 OUCH! The only suggestion I would have is to buy fewer fish at a time. Even on a fully cycled tank, adding a lot of biomass can knock the biofilter off. Well, 12 -1 inch size fish should be ok in a cycled 20 gallon, especially since they were way more crowded than that where they came from. No food waste, and I syphon for leftovers every 2 days. I use extra filtration on all my tanks, twice as much as they need typically. Like I've always said, I'm very fussy and don't leave much to chance anymore. I sterilize everything I buy, and if I move anything from tank to tank as well. Germs/bugs dont like me! Wow! You're right! That shouldn't be significant impact at all. You know... I don't fuss that much about my Q-tanks. Some, I just keep running. And, I don't have any problems. Of course, I haven't purchased a fish from an LFS in over a year, so that might be my secret to success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1foxes Posted August 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 Most stores offer the 72 hour clause because anything beyond 72 hours is beyond their control. Disease is par for the course and can never be fully eliminated. Ich is one of those "lottery" type infestations because it can go undetected for long periods of time. The normal incubation period of Ich is 2 weeks on average. However, Ich can also go through a couple of life cycles undetected. This means that an infected tank could carry Ich for a month or two and not know it is there. It is a tough position for LFS to quarrantine their livestock. One one hand, they don't want disease giving them a bad reputaion. On the other hand, LFS are a buisness and aquatics are very expensive to mantain and a quick turnover is the nature of retail buisness. It has been sheer luck that other stores have not infected you with Ich. Maybe it is because you deal with the one shop the most and the more times you buy from a shop, the more likely you are to have a disease infect your tank(s). I know some stores will not sell stock in for less than 2 weeks, and some have a 2-3 day turnover. Filtration systems make a difference- individual systems are easier to detect problems and deal with them, and with big community systems things get spread easy and go undetected. My system is set up to keep problems isolated and deal with them effectively. I know ich can go undetected for quite some time, but proper treatment before signs show still should kill it regardless. In my case, given my ich killing procedures between batches of new fish, the source isnt hard to pin down, not everyone is so lucky. Some sources are better than others for sure. For a while I was going on the 'lottery' thing as well, you take your chances right, but when you get 3 cases, all from the same source, well, those arent great odds so I guess I won't play that game no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dork Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 I can relate to every thing that you are saying. But what are you goting too do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vapor Posted August 25, 2006 Report Share Posted August 25, 2006 :cry: Sorry to hear about your fish. I hate even when one dies, let alone the whole works of them. Maybe try to buy in smaller batches, not that this was your problem but just in case something does go wrong as it did this time. I have also said I will not buy from certain stores and all of a sudden they have that fish you just have to have that you can't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1foxes Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 :cry: Sorry to hear about your fish. I hate even when one dies, let alone the whole works of them. Maybe try to buy in smaller batches, not that this was your problem but just in case something does go wrong as it did this time. I have also said I will not buy from certain stores and all of a sudden they have that fish you just have to have that you can't resist. I just plucked the last of them out of the tank- they all croaked. One thing I do know, I won't even set foot back in that place again. I've spent alot of money there in the last 8-9months, many thousands actually, but neither me nor anyone close to me will go in again. Its not worth it. I have less casualties getting fish shipped in from Florida or Bangkok! I'll be buying from breeders mostly now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichthyosporidium Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 That is very unfortunate too see that situation go that way. Never nice to loose fish in that magnitude and add insult too injury, monetary loss with no offer to appease my loss, not even once as a loyal cutomer. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :mad: :mad: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont' blame you after that experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qattarra Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Just did a LFS tour today, we went to the one store I've never been to and was hugely impressed with the variety and layout.What I was not impressed with was one tank of plattys was riddled with velvet, the kribs all had clenched fins, I stopped looking at the tropical fishes altogether. The cichlids seemed good but now the doubt was there. If I buy plants can I bring home these illnesses too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1foxes Posted August 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Just did a LFS tour today, we went to the one store I've never been to and was hugely impressed with the variety and layout.What I was not impressed with was one tank of plattys was riddled with velvet, the kribs all had clenched fins, I stopped looking at the tropical fishes altogether. The cichlids seemed good but now the doubt was there. If I buy plants can I bring home these illnesses too? Live and even plastic plants can carry ich as well. Gravel is notorious for it, the used stuff anyway, thats why I even disinfect that stuff with salt, vinegar and boiling water before i use it. The fish, well, can carry it without showing any signs, and if the LFS tour today found some evidence of a fungal or anything, and its a central system then its everywhere. I may have 40 tanks, but I still individually filter every single one. EVen my cleaning hose and bucket gets sterilized after I clean an infected or suspicious tank. I guess my experience in bio-sealed livestock facilities has taught me a few important habits i keep now. EVen my nets, live in a dip for parasites and diseases/fungus etc. The best stores in my opinion- individual filtration on all tanks, they keep new stock for at least a couple weeks before they sell it. When I deal with this type of store, I've never had to take one back. I have nothing but respect for them, I recommend them to all .Best in town,hands down!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qattarra Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Completely agree!!!!! And Henry, thank you, I've never lost a fish from you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Roth Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 I found keeping my fw tanks at 82.5 with a dash of aquarium salt cured my ich ills incredibly fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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