RD.

Congrats on the new aro Ryan, looking good!

I posted this a few yrs back on another forum, it explains how & why both sexes grow nuchal humps. But you are right, many hobbyists are under the impression that only a male can grow a nuchal hump, your female clearly proves that wrong. Nice chunky pair! Hormonal control of the nuchal hump in the cichlid fish Cichlasoma citrinellum C.R. Bleick - Zoology Department, University of California, Berkeley, California 94720 USA Abstract A nuchal hump (forehead swelling) develops in both male and female Cichlasoma citrinellum prior to spawning, and subsides shortly after spawning. Hump development is due to edema of the modified nuchal hypodermis. Fat stored in the same tissue does not contribute to prespawning hump development, although it may cause a residual, enduring hump. Plasma water increases slightly in fish with a nuchal swelling, indicating systemic water retention. The prespawning nuchal edema resembles preovulatory sexual skin swelling in monkeys. Nuchal hump development in males is gonad dependent. A hump could be induced with mammalian gonadotropins (HCG or ovine LH) in intact males but not in castrates. However, the steroid hormones testosterone, 11-ketotestosterone, 17β-estradiol benzoate, progesterone, hydrocortisone acetate, and aldosterone failed to induce a hump. A decline in the hump comparable to that occurring after spawning was induced by homogenate of C. citrinellum rostral pars distalis (8 r. p. d. per male fish); and a slight effect was obtained with ovine prolactin (2 daily injections of 7.5 μg/g). These results suggest that PRL secretion may inhibit the hump during the parental period. George Barlow also discusses this subject with regards to citrinellum kept in captivity in the following paper. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1022&context=ichthynicar&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.ca%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dthe%2520midas%2520cichlid%2520in%2520nicaragua%2520barlow%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26ved%3D0CCAQFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fdigitalcommons.unl.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1022%2526context%253Dichthynicar%26ei%3D8JWJT7nFFtLRiAKBx_3gCw%26usg%3DAFQjCNEYWNS0_mv2VpOzUIKaGjulEpIU6Q#search=%22midas%20cichlid%20nicaragua%20barlow%22 The factors determining the presence and size of the nuchal hump are complex, but they tend to assure that maximum dimorphism occurs at the time of pair formation. A typical progression makes the point: a male with no nuchal hump is brought into the laboratory and put into a situation conducive to breeding. Within a few days he develops a large hump. Then he is paired with a female. The hump recedes during the one or two weeks of courtship. Sometimes it diminishes rapidly, in less than one day, just before spawning (C.R. Bleick, pers. comm.). It stays reduced through the parental phase. If the pair completes the rearing of young and commences another breeding cycle, the male does not develop a large nuchal hump this time. But if the female is taken away at this point for a few days and is then returned, or replaced with a new female, the hump develops anew in the male. Here the elaboration of the nuchal hump is stimulated by the factors associated with thwarted sexual behavior and pair formation. Groups of males kept without females in large tanks regularly develop enormous nuchal humps that persist. The humps on such males often become grotesque, and far exceed anything seen in nature. The behavior of these males suggests that aggressive behavior might be involved in stimulating the development of the hump. Aggressive activity is also an important aspect of courtship behavior, particularly during pair formation.

Honestly, most are pretty much made from the same low cost components, which is why I stated earlier today to check out this folder for past threads about controllers. See the heater thread that I just bumped up today. Then at least the worse case scenario is that if a heater fails it will be in the OFF position, and you can catch it early on. If it fails in the ON position the controller will keep it from cooking your fish, which is another reason why it is a good idea to use two lower wattage heaters in your tank, vs one high wattage unit. Or you can allow the ambient temp in your house to heat the tank, such as what Jorg mentioned.

Unfortunately, when it comes to aquarium heaters that doesn't seem to be the case. The attitude that you just expressed is exactly why such low standards are still accepted by the hobby as a whole. Aquarium heaters fail fairly consistently across the board, no matter the brand. If one is lucky they will last several years, if not they can fail in weeks, months, or right out of the box. Or maybe there are a LOT more one in a million unlucky people out there than most people realize.

Bump ....

Most aquarium heaters use low cost Chinese components. Do yourself a favor and search "controller" on this site and read some of the previous threads on this topic. Edited to add I just bumped up an old one in this sub forum....

I must add, after seeing Ryan's in person I would most definitely own them if offered for free! LOL Let me know if you ever need to move them out.

If it was my fish, I would try presoaking some of his food for the next few days. It will reach the pathogens faster, and will be more effective than simply adding to the water. It also won't hurt the rest of your fish to eat some of the mix. Aquarium salts will be of no help with this particular parasite.

Best to treat the whole tank as the parasites will be in that tank now & possibly already spreading waiting for their next opportunity (stress) in another fish.

Possibly Spironucleus vortens, aka Hexamita, the color & shape of his waste is a classic sign. Treat with Metronidazole, and/or Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salt) via presoaked food. I also highly recommend the NLS Hex-Shield formula. Getting the meds directly into the gut is key, if the fish refuses to eat then treat the tank with Metronidazole. I can't seem to post a link here, but you can find an article on the epsom salt treatment on monsterfishkeepers.com Just google epsom salt spironucleus and that should get you a quick link.

A snail has feelings too....

Hey Jonah, 1.25 gm = 1/4 tsp Any further math calculations you will need to perform yourself, you're much younger, and far more educated than I.

No problem, glad to help shed some light on this product. If anyone has access to the full article please post the various pathogens that Dr. Noga and his group used in their study. Thanks!

And I might as well add this old review as well, which is pretty much in line with what Dr. Noga et al found in their study, while not ruling out that it could still be used to treat scuffs & scrapes. http://www.koivet.com/a_melaleuca_tea_tree_oil_koi_wounds_healing.html

11 years later, and a little update on this discussion. Not overly conclusive by any means, but certainly interesting. Dr. Edward J. Noga and the North Carolina State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, are very well known in the aquatic world when it comes to their work involving fish health. Dr. Noga's book on fish health/medicine is pretty much the bible for anyone involved in this field, including every vet that specializes in fish. http://www.exoticpetmedicine.com/article/S1557-5063(15)00026-9/abstract Laboratory Evaluation of Safety and Efficacy for Melafix (Melaleuca cajuputi Extract) AbstractA study was performed at the North Carolina State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, to assess the safety and efficacy of Melafix, an aquarium product produced by Mars Fishcare Incorporated. Studies were carried out on the goldfish (Carassius auratus), a freshwater species, and the false percula clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris), a marine fish. Animals were monitored closely and evaluated microscopically after exposure to Melafix according to the label directions for a period of 28 days. Water-quality parameters were monitored on a daily basis. The use of Melafix on goldfish and clownfish appears to be safe as no adverse effects were noted during the experimental period. The results also showed that Melafix has no effect on the water-quality parameters tested. In vitro efficacy studies were conducted by determining the minimum inhibitory concentration and minimum bactericidal concentration of Melafix on various pathogens. The study revealed that Melafix had no significant bactericidal or inhibitory effect on any of the pathogens tested. This observation suggests that anecdotal benefits of Melafix are not owing to antibacterial activity. This topic requires further research and possibly an in vivo study.

This topic came up on another forum several months back. Bred in Taiwan, possibly hybrids, and IMO ridiculously overpriced by some vendors. Some of the online vendors in the US were selling them for $120, some of the various LFS for twice that amount. But I agree, $399.00 is insane. I wouldn't own them if offered to me for free. They were released from Taiwan at the same time as the hump head heckelii now on the market. http://goldfishmessage.blogspot.ca/2014/07/blog-post_30.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13FYXVpZp2A

Were they albino variants by chance?

Personally I think that's a BS cop out. It's easy to say that after naming the store, both in the title, and your initial post, and then followed by using terms such as "animal cruelty" to describe the fish being sold. You don't feel that's placing this store in a negative light? Really? I'm pretty sure that any LFS owner on the planet would disagree. Not that I am defending the sale of these fish, but what I am defending is the right of every LFS owner to sell whatever they damn well feel like, as long as the fish in question is legal - which these are. If you don't like it, work on changing the law, and/or educating consumers so that the demand is no longer there, not singling out hard working store owners such as Denis, who after as many years as he's been selling in his market knows exactly what his customers want. Please don't be so naive as to think for one moment that you can educate Denis about anything regarding tropical fish, included those that have been dyed, tatooed, or whatever. You'd be better off saving the fuel on that trip, and helping out with global warming.

Jesus Jorg, compared to a tankfull of tatooed fish this looks like the killing fields of Cambodia!

While I applaud your passion regarding animal cruelty, I don't personly feel that this forum is the place to single out each & every vendor that may go against what you personally feel is cruel, or not, including what species of fish should be kept in the hobby, or not. No one is saying that you can't or shouldn't promote your cause, but IMO this isn't the way to go about doing so. I guess the PTB here can decide whether or not your thread should stay.

Really not too sure why you would post this to begin with if you haven't even confirmed it yourself in person, but just a FYI this thread is in violation of this sites TOS. http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=11473

FYI - bacteria in a bottle can remain in a dormant phase for many months ........ Some bacteria in nature can remain in a dormant spore phase for "years", surviving drought, sub zero freezing temps, etc.

There are most definitely "bacteria in a bottle" products that work. Dr. Tim's for one. Another is Seachem Stability. My personal experience with Seachem Stability is that I had to use twice the recommended dose, but otherwise it did perform exactly as advertised. As far as Nutrafin/Hagen Cycle ........... I'm personally not a big fan of Nutrafin products, even less of one of their product Cycle after reading this report a few yrs back. In the following study performed in 2008 and published in the Canadian Journal of Microbiology, researchers found some rather alarming evidence of potential pathogenic bacteria in a product marketed by one of the aquatic industry giants, Hagen. http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/W08-015 Abstract Two commercial products, Biotize and Cycle, containing bacteria as an active ingredient were characterized for species identification and batch-to-batch variation by denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE), total cellular fatty acid analysis (FAA), and a taxonomic DNA microarray. DGGE was useful at assessing the stability of consortia in different batches, and cluster analysis differentiated each batch even when only slight differences in species composition were observed. DGGE, FAA, and DNA microarray results indicated little batch-to-batch variation in Biotize and some batch variation in Cycle. The 3 methods agreed well with species identification in Biotize but generated conflicting results in the species composition of Cycle. This multi-method approach was useful in determining if the observed bacterial species present in the products matched the expected species composition Forty-two different bacterial isolates were obtained from Cycle through nonspecific plating. FAA identified 21 different isolates (Table 3), including 7 Bacillus species, 3 Mycobacterium species, 5 Pseudomonas species, Anthrobacter viscosus, Brevibacillus parabrevis/B. megaterium, Panibacillus macerans, Rhodococcus sp., Rhodobacter sphaeroides, Sphyngopyxis macrogoltabida, Variovax paradoxus, and Xanthobacter flavus. All of bacterial species identified in Cycle were not listed by the manufacturer. Bacteria such as Nitrosomonas species were not detected due to the unsuitable culturing conditions used. Mycobacterium fortuitum, Mycobacterium chelonea, Mycobacterium smegmatis, B. cereus, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa identified in Cycle are considered opportunistic pathogens. Fungal isolates were successfully cultured on RBC plates for all batches of Cycle. These isolates were identified as Rhizopus sp. and Aspergillus sp. The fungal and opportunistic pathogenic bacterial species identified in Cycle may have been contaminants based on the product’s label, claiming it contained only nonpathogenic bacteria. These species could have resulted from either impure product starter cultures, contamination in the manufacturing process, or nondefinitive taxonomic identifications.

Nice looking uros!

In response to my comment someone posted the following on MFK earlier today. I'm not too sure how that was supposed to simplify things, but whatever ........