New Life Spectrum Food

[dunl]

Now if someone could take two groups of high quality M. esterhae, and feed both groups NLS exclusively for say 90 days straight, then take one group and feed it NLS with added asaxanthin for another 90 days, while the other group remains on NLS only, that might be worthy of documenting. (given all parameters are exactly equal in both tank environments)

All nutrition aside, this argument of mine is strictly for colour. Please keep that in mind while responding....

I'd like to see what happens to a third group placed on an unamed food with Naturose added......would the same effect happen?

Dunl

[RD.]

That would really depend on the 'unamed' food that's used. I suppose if all one was interested in was color, and had no interest in the overall health, longevity, and growth of their fish, you could make up a spirulina/astaxanthin combo with gelatine & feed that once every day to boost their color.

This would also depend on the quality of both the spirulina, as well as the astaxanthin. Both of those products can vary greatly in their color enhancing abilities due to how they were processed, and how old the actual batch is. According to the reps at Cyanotech (who manufacture Naturose) this product is only stable in a 'raw' form (if kept frozen, or in very cool temps) for 12 months from the date of manufacture. When I got my sample from Cyanotech it had the date of manufacture on it, as well as the expiry date. When I purchased my original sample online, it had no dates whatsoever on it, just a printed label stating what it was. Obviously most online dealers buy it in bulk, then re-bag it, so it's a given it's already been exposed to light, oxygen, and heat. How long it's been stored for (or at what temps) before the 'consumer' gets it, is anyones guess?

Like all carotenoids, astaxanthin is sensitive to heat, light, and oxygen so precautions should be taken to protect this carotenoid from oxidation.

Obviously storage timelines become quite important if one is using it as a supplement.

The sales rep also stated that excessive use could lead to aggression in fish. (not sure why, but that's what he said?)

There's an interesting read on this subject in Ad Konings "Enjoying Cichlids" (first edition). The author of the article (Kjell Fohrman) divided 300 juvenile M. esterhae into 6 equal groups.

He ran his food trial for 5 weeks, and at that time, using Tetra & Hikari as the commercial foods, he found that the tank that was fed shrimp mix & spirulina attained the best color. Unfortunately this was performed many years ago, and astaxanthin (as a raw ingredient) was not used. Most shrimp contain natural esterfied astaxanthin, but I suspect that had Fohrman added an extra amount of esterfied astaxanthin to his test diet, he would have seen a significant improvement over his shrimp mix & spirulina raised specimens.

The truth is, in aqauriums, you just don't see a lot of M. esterhae that look like the wild specimen in the pic below. Part of that can no doubt be attributed to their genetics, but diet definitely plays a key role. Kyle (African_Fever) told me that this was one species that Stuart Grant had difficulty with in keeping its "wild" color while in the holding tanks. On his commercial feed they lost their intense colouration rather swiftly.

IMO a quality diet is just the icing on the cake. It goes hand in hand with good genetics, fresh water, and a low stress environment.

Edited January 17, 2005 by RD.

[RD.]

The OB Peacock in the following pics was fed New Life Spectrum with Naturose Astaxanthin for approx 8 weeks. I no longer own this freak of nature, but I thought I'd share the before & after results.

Obviously I now wish I had kept him longer, and fed him NLS sans the astaxanthin, then with the astaxanthin, just to compare if there was indeed any change in his colouration. (with the added astaxanthin)

The fish below was approx 4 1/2" and fully mature when those pics were taken (he was over 2 years old) and the previous owner had been feeding him a "variety" of foods made by Hagen, Tetra, etc, when the first pic was taken. It was originally purchased at Pisces as a "Cherry Spot" OB peacock.

Even with my now antique digital camera, the results from a change in diet were quite amazing. Who knows what he would have looked like in another 8 weeks?

[Tang]

Hey RD

Have to say I think you are kind of pulling our legs, (just a little bit here). The lighting in these two pics is obviously slightly different, according to other objects in the photos attached

Tang :ml:

[RD.]

Trust me, I couldn't tweak the lighting, or anything else, if my life depended on it.

Both pics were taken in the same tank, under the same lights (two 18" 15W bulbs) with no flash, just natural daylight (and whatever lights in the room were on at the time), and using the same ancient digital camera.

To be honest, the second pic did not do the actual fish justice at all. The true iridescence & color of this fish was definitely not captured by my camera.

When I took it back to the LFS, the previous owner (who was at that time the manager of the fish dept at the LFS) did not believe me it was his fish. He looked at that fish for a good 3-4 minutes before he admitted that it was his fish, he then asked me "what have you been feeding it!!!?".

That fish had previously sat in a tank for a good month or two before I bought it, and when I returned it, it was sold in less than 24 hrs.

[RD.]

edited to remove image, I believe Tang got the point.

Edited January 18, 2005 by RD.

[RD.]

edited to remove image, I believe Tang got the point.

Edited January 18, 2005 by RD.

[Cap'n]

No problem Cpt, but I think that somehow you missed the entire point of my initial post in the Nutrition 101 thread?

This was especially obvious when Albert asked for recomendations on foods not to use

You see, that's exactly what I did NOT want to get into. The idea was to get people to use their own noodles, and make some decisions on their own. It's for that exact same reason I left out brand names in the article I wrote for C-F. At the time I was writing that article Eric (admin at CF) told me he could hook me up with a few of the major players in the fish food circle, including Pablo Tepoot, but I told him that I did not want to endorse *any* manufacturers in that article, I wanted people to read it, learn from it, and make their own educated decisions.

Most people already know what my favourite food is, that's a given, but that thread was never meant to be a 'review' on every brand of food on the market, good or bad. (the last thing I need is a lawsuit on my hands)

If you read the initial comment, and the info in the various links provided, you should have a good understanding of what you want to see in the first 4-5 ingredients in any given fish food, and what you do not want to see.

Ah, nope, sure didn't miss the point of the initial post. I thought it was a good one. Very informative, as I stated before.

It was just that the thread lost objectivity from there.

Your reluctance to mention any brand names you felt were inferior was overshadowed by your exuberance to mention the one brand name you approved of. If your ethics forbade you from posting negative comments about particular products, they should have had the same effect on mentioning others in a positive light.

The idea was to get people to use their own noodles, and make some decisions on their own.

Kind of hypocritical.

Just my opinion.

So, you going to nominate me for LMOTM? :smokey:

[RD.]

I understand your point, but it had nothing to do with 'ethics'. I've bad mouthed plenty of foods over the past 2 years, but suddenly I'm finding myself in a position where that may not be in my best interest. (lawyers can get expensive)

It was just that the thread lost objectivity from there.

And this is somehow my fault? Do you have a particular brand of food that you'd like to discuss? If so, feel free to post back on the Nutrition 101 thread & I'll do my best to answer any questions or concerns that you may have, like I already did for another member.

[RD.]

Cpt - after rereading my comments in the other thread, I think I see where you're coming from.

As good as it may be, I'm sure there are others that could be considered competition.

To which I stated:

"I can also say that IMHO there is no other maker of pellet or flake food that even comes close to NLS. Not Hikari, not Hagen, not Omega One, not Wardley's, not Tetra, and from what I've recently read, not Big Al's either."

Pick a brand name, and I'll gladly add it to my list. If I haven't personally used it, I've researched it, and feel quite comfortable in stating that there is no other single brand of food on the market that compares to NLS. Many of these manufacturers have been around much longer than NLS, so yes, they do have an edge in that regards, but if you're comparing quality of the product, then no, I would personally not consider any of them to be competition.

Do some of the other manufacturers make some decent products, yes, of course, and up until just very recently I was using some of them as 'supplements' to my main staple of NLS. I too was caught up in the 'fish need a varied diet' line of thinking.

Conventional wisdom would say to feed a varied diet. To that I say ..... why?

Usually the response is to insure that all of your fishes nutrtional needs are being met. IMO that's already the case with NLS, so there's really no need to supplement with any other product. NLS is a 'varied diet' that IMO consists of the highest quality raw ingredients on the market.

Here's a recent comment by Pablo on this exact subject:

Fish nutrition is perhaps the least discussed subject in fish keeping. It is more complicated than meets the eye. In order to produced robust health, all nutrients have to be met in right proportions,such as: Calcium, Iodine, Phosphous, Magnesium, Sodium, Potassium, Iron, Copper, Zinc, Iodine, Manganese, Selinium, Choline, Carbohydrates, Fiber, Vitamin A, B6 & B12, C, D2 & D3, E, K2 & K3, Pantothenic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Thiamin, Riboflavin, folic Acid, Myoinositol, Omega 3 & 4, all amino Acids: Arginine, Histidine, Isoleucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, Trytophan, Valine.

For instance too much Vitamins causes vitamintosis, too little cause poor health. All the elements are intertwined like weaving a basket. All nutrients as energy intake has to exceed energy output,such as locomotion, metabolic function...etc. When energy intake is less than output, the fish slowly waste away until it ceases to exist. Bear in mind, when you feed your fish with variety of food, somehow you "hope" to give them a balanced diet. However, in reality, it is a "guesswork at best.

We have painstakingly experimented to come up with the right proportions to produced heathy fish. " The proof of the pudding is in the eating". We have conducted experiments for over 6 years now. We mananged to keep Parrotfish, Angelfish, Surgeonfish, Triggerfish, Butterflyfish...and even some fish like Rock Beauty, Regal Angel, Moorish Idol to name a few, exclusively with NLS. We have yet to encounter lateral line & fin erosion or hole in the head syndrome.

We also experimented with Malawi & Tanganyika cichlids and all kinds herbivore, omnivore, carnivore freshwater tropical fish with equal success. This is why our guarantee extends only to exclusive feeding. we know what the fish is getting in their diet with NLS.

One of the most common objections to the idea of exclusive feeding is that the fish gets bored with one food! This is far from being the truth. Some marine fish in the wild insist of eating very specific food such as coral, coral polyps, sponge, trunicate day in and day out. In captivity, they'd rather die of starvation than switch food! We sometime interject our own feeling into how our fish feel. I can sum up my answer with what TFH editor said " Much of scientific wisdom today began as a heresies of another time".

Edited January 18, 2005 by RD.