Planted tank help needed!!!

[Wackinator]

I once again apologize for always filling this website with stupid questions but Ive always wanted a planted fish tank and if I fail this time I guess Im gonna give up on it for a long time.

The tank Im going to change is my 20 gallon, Ive sold all the fish that were originally in it, now it only has 3 red cherry shrimps left.

My main question right now is about Lighting and Substrate as I want to start this tank sometime this weekend because its a long weekend and school is too much during weekdays. For Lighting I was thinking of 2 GE's 26W 6500k cool Daylight bulbs (They are supposed to be equivalent to 100W) and I think that would be more than sufficient as it would mean I get 2.6 Watts per Gallon.

For Substrate Im stuck, I have been looking up online and read that a lot of people use just 2 inches of normal topsoil covered with 1.5inch of gravel and Im sort of attracted to that idea because I dont have the money to spend 15-25 dollars per bag of substrate. Does anyone know if that will work or any place to get cheap substrate?

Since I really want to get this started asap those are my first issues, I do have a list of plants and fish I want that I will probably add soon.

Thanks for all your help!!!

Edited February 23, 2010 by blackbelt609

[BettaFishMommy]

pool filter sand or play sand would work for a planted tank, and home depot and such places sells it. just checked home depot online and play sand is less than 7 bucks for a 20kg bag. that would be more than enough for your tank i think, and you could do the soil underneath if you want to, but i've seen planted tanks with just sand and that works just fine too. my planted 55 gal has a mix of coarse sand and small gravel and my plants love it.

what is your current substrate in this tank? you could always mix it with sand to create a nice 'network' for the plant roots to grow in.

i don't think you want to go too high in your lighting without considering fertilizers and co2. i'm not too familiar with all the different bulbs out there but if you are going to be starting with some easy types of plants i'd shoot for around 1.5 watts per gallon. i'm under 1 watt per gallon right now (40 watts total) and all my plants except some vals in the back corner are doing quite well and growth on most plants is daily lately.

what plants are you considering?

[Wackinator]

pool filter sand or play sand would work for a planted tank, and home depot and such places sells it. just checked home depot online and play sand is less than 7 bucks for a 20kg bag. that would be more than enough for your tank i think, and you could do the soil underneath if you want to, but i've seen planted tanks with just sand and that works just fine too. my planted 55 gal has a mix of coarse sand and small gravel and my plants love it.

what is your current substrate in this tank? you could always mix it with sand to create a nice 'network' for the plant roots to grow in.

i don't think you want to go too high in your lighting without considering fertilizers and co2. i'm not too familiar with all the different bulbs out there but if you are going to be starting with some easy types of plants i'd shoot for around 1.5 watts per gallon. i'm under 1 watt per gallon right now (40 watts total) and all my plants except some vals in the back corner are doing quite well and growth on most plants is daily lately.

what plants are you considering?

Hey thanks for the quick reply!

I have a bag of topsoil in my backyard that hasnt been opened yet so I was thinking I could use that.

I have read its better than sand for plants anyways?

And I do realize that its a high amount of light but some of my plants will need it, and is it okay if I only keep the light on for 6 hours every day?

Some of the plants I am considering are Anubias, Java Fern, Amazon Sword Plant, Some kind of moss, maybe Christmas? Pygmy Swordplant, H. Polysperma, Wisteria, and Cabomba?

Is that list okay?

Thanks again

[BettaFishMommy]

"Anubias, Java Fern, Amazon Sword Plant, Some kind of moss, maybe Christmas? Pygmy Swordplant, H. Polysperma, Wisteria, and Cabomba?"

i have anubias, amazon sword, and wisteria. they grow really well under the 40 watts i mentioned. anubias have flowered lately and the sword puts out a new leaf each week. personally, i don't think you're going to need 2+ watts per gallon for the plants on your list. i keep my lights on for 12 to 13 hours per day, sometimes a little longer. i know, i know, the plant geeks on here are shaking their heads, lol, but i have no algae, good plant growth, and the tank is healthy.

Edited February 19, 2010 by BettaFishMommy

[Wackinator]

"Anubias, Java Fern, Amazon Sword Plant, Some kind of moss, maybe Christmas? Pygmy Swordplant, H. Polysperma, Wisteria, and Cabomba?"

i have anubias, amazon sword, and wisteria. they grow really well under the 40 watts i mentioned. anubias have flowered lately and the sword puts out a new leaf each week. personally, i don't think you're going to need 2+ watts per gallon for the plants on your list. i keep my lights on for 12 to 13 hours per day, sometimes a little longer. i know, i know, the plant geeks on here are shaking their heads, lol, but i have no algae, good plant growth, and the tank is healthy.

I think the max I can keep the lights on is 8 hours a day because my parents this it will make the electric bill fly to the sky even though I did my best to calculate it and showed them that it would only cost a cpl of bucks maximum.

I also read that if you use a planted tank you can go above the gallon per inch rule, is that true? Ill keep looking for lighter bulbs and hopefully find some that gives me 1.8-2 watts per gallon.

Edited February 19, 2010 by blackbelt609

[catshanon]

Looks like you are in a bit of rush to setup a planted tank. I would suggest that you take it slowly and you will definitely have success. Plants will need fertilisers, light and CO2 to grow well. Its the right combination of those 3 that leads to a good algae free fast growing planted tank.

IMO topsoil is not too risky for the beginner. You will be better off to buy one bag of fluorite and then mix it with cheap play sand from Home depot. The fluorite will help in the plant growth but you will need to add fertilisers later on. Your lighting looks allright, although its the spectrum of the bulb that is most important. I suggest you buy a timer and set the lights on from 8 - 12pm and then from 3pm - 9pm for a total of 10 hours.

Have a plan to add CO2 as this really really helps. Pressurized CO2 works best, but you can start with DIY yeast or excel. Adding CO2 is must for good and rapid growth.

If possible try not to plant cabomba in the beginning. I have never had any luck with it (Doesn't mean you also wouldn't have). It needs fairly high light and is a delicate plant. Try some crptocorynes in the beginning. Also, don't start out with too many plants in the beginning. IMO plant some hygro and anubias and java fern and later on add an amazon sword. Amazon swords are very heavy root feeders, so you will need to fertilise them properly.

[BettaFishMommy]

catshanon, my amazon sword is very healthy and has new weekly growth. no ferts, no co2. only fish poop, light, and water changes. i've had this sword now for about a year and have had to prune it back so many times i've lost count, lol.

not all plants need the high tech options such as ferts, co2, high wattage lights, etc.

and i think if blackbelt's parents' are touchy about the electric bill they might have some issue with a pressurized cylinder of gas in the house....... lol!

[Wackinator]

Looks like you are in a bit of rush to setup a planted tank. I would suggest that you take it slowly and you will definitely have success. Plants will need fertilisers, light and CO2 to grow well. Its the right combination of those 3 that leads to a good algae free fast growing planted tank.

IMO topsoil is not too risky for the beginner. You will be better off to buy one bag of fluorite and then mix it with cheap play sand from Home depot. The fluorite will help in the plant growth but you will need to add fertilisers later on. Your lighting looks allright, although its the spectrum of the bulb that is most important. I suggest you buy a timer and set the lights on from 8 - 12pm and then from 3pm - 9pm for a total of 10 hours.

Have a plan to add CO2 as this really really helps. Pressurized CO2 works best, but you can start with DIY yeast or excel. Adding CO2 is must for good and rapid growth.

If possible try not to plant cabomba in the beginning. I have never had any luck with it (Doesn't mean you also wouldn't have). It needs fairly high light and is a delicate plant. Try some crptocorynes in the beginning. Also, don't start out with too many plants in the beginning. IMO plant some hygro and anubias and java fern and later on add an amazon sword. Amazon swords are very heavy root feeders, so you will need to fertilise them properly.

Thanks CatShanon, sorry I probably do sound rushed but I want to mainly get the bulbs and substrate and the equipments I would need. I wasnt planning to add all the plants at once, and I tried Cabomba last time too, and it grew really well and fast but I think because the light was really bad the bottom part of the plant was dying so I had floating leaves everywhere. I might look into diy co2 but is there any specific problem with using dirt?

I was going to go looking for a timer for sure when I go to Canadian tire or home depot as almost everyone recommends it.

Thanks again for your help

catshanon, my amazon sword is very healthy and has new weekly growth. no ferts, no co2. only fish poop, light, and water changes. i've had this sword now for about a year and have had to prune it back so many times i've lost count, lol.

not all plants need the high tech options such as ferts, co2, high wattage lights, etc.

and i think if blackbelt's parents' are touchy about the electric bill they might have some issue with a pressurized cylinder of gas in the house....... lol!

thanks again bettafishmommy but yeah pressurized cylinders are out of the questions though there are a lot of Do it yourself co2 systems on the net and Ive seen a couple that I think I can do.

Edited February 19, 2010 by blackbelt609

[timbruun]

I agree with bettafishmommy. Keep the lighting around 1.5 or under. Otherwise you might run into problems with algae.

[geleen]

"but is there any specific problem with using dirt?"

You will find that it will compact and in a few years will have to be replaced, think 2-3 years. Usually works great, for a time.( BTW 3/4 inch is more than enough)

However you will not know how it will work with the specifics in your tank; and without co2 you might be battling a lot of algae, for a long time, especially in the beginning. You have no control over the plant nourishment present in the soil, so once it is in there you are stuck. This is why it is not a good beginner substrate. (From past experience )

2 " of pool sand is cheap and works well for most folks. Deeper is not really a requirement. If you can afford it, fluorite is a good media.

Have fun and take it slow.

John

[jvision]

Planted tanks are actually quite easy if you GO FOR IT from the start. The problem with 'easing into it' is that, if you decide you want to start feedin your few plants (ferts), you'll also feed algae and struggle with keeping it at bay.

From my experience, you'll want to plan for filling the tank w. plants from the get-go, if you want a lush tank with little problem from algae. Your plans for lighting are perfect, but do also plan for a carbon source. Seachem Excel is nice for a 20 gal.

IMO, you should wait for an upcoming auction - you'll get enough plants to fill your tank for the same price, or less, as 5 or 6 plants from the LFS.

When I set up a tank from scratch, this is how I do it (for cheap):

1)add 2-4" of Quickrete Play Sand (from Home Depot - brand is important) or SIL 8 (from Sil Industries)

2)add root tabs where heavy root feeders (Swords, Crypts, Lotus, etc) will be (I have used Tropica, Seachem and 1/4s of Jobe's for palms & ferns with success)

3)fill tank 3/4 with water - add slowly, maybe onto a plate so as to not stir the substrate

4)add plants

- add enough plants so that at least 80% of the footprint is planted

- start with fast-growing plants (swords, val, stems)

- you can replace these in time, but starting with fast-growers will eliminate your need to cycle the tank before adding fish

5)feed your plants

- CO2 is the most important food. 2WPG or more, you'll need to supliment

- I don't like test kits, so I used the Estimative Index method of fertilizing. Some people say 50% WCs each week are too much work, but if you have a hose, it's really easy IMO

6)your tank is safe to add fish

If you skip steps (not enough plants, improper feeding of plants) your chance of algae is greatly increased.

Raj is right about Cabomba - it's a cold-water plant that doesn't do well in tropical tnaks. Limnophila sessiliflora is a good substitute.

[Wingin' It]

I do it the same as jvision has instructed, except I haven't done the root tabs. I do have a DIY CO2 on my 33 gallon though. I used Playsand for substrate, added a schwack of plants, added the DIY CO2 and then fish. All is good so far.

[darkangel]

Planted tanks are actually quite easy if you GO FOR IT from the start. The problem with 'easing into it' is that, if you decide you want to start feedin your few plants (ferts), you'll also feed algae and struggle with keeping it at bay.

From my experience, you'll want to plan for filling the tank w. plants from the get-go, if you want a lush tank with little problem from algae. Your plans for lighting are perfect, but do also plan for a carbon source. Seachem Excel is nice for a 20 gal.

IMO, you should wait for an upcoming auction - you'll get enough plants to fill your tank for the same price, or less, as 5 or 6 plants from the LFS.

When I set up a tank from scratch, this is how I do it (for cheap):

1)add 2-4" of Quickrete Play Sand (from Home Depot - brand is important) or SIL 8 (from Sil Industries)

2)add root tabs where heavy root feeders (Swords, Crypts, Lotus, etc) will be (I have used Tropica, Seachem and 1/4s of Jobe's for palms & ferns with success)

3)fill tank 3/4 with water - add slowly, maybe onto a plate so as to not stir the substrate

4)add plants

- add enough plants so that at least 80% of the footprint is planted

- start with fast-growing plants (swords, val, stems)

- you can replace these in time, but starting with fast-growers will eliminate your need to cycle the tank before adding fish

5)feed your plants

- CO2 is the most important food. 2WPG or more, you'll need to supliment

- I don't like test kits, so I used the Estimative Index method of fertilizing. Some people say 50% WCs each week are too much work, but if you have a hose, it's really easy IMO

6)your tank is safe to add fish

If you skip steps (not enough plants, improper feeding of plants) your chance of algae is greatly increased.

Raj is right about Cabomba - it's a cold-water plant that doesn't do well in tropical tnaks. Limnophila sessiliflora is a good substitute.

Fromone plant geek to another potential plant geek. This is the step by step way to go.

[Kronosdelsol]

.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Kronosdelsol

[werner]

So... if you've had the tank set up for a while, what kind of substrate is in there now? Chances are that an established tank will have enough mulm and crud in the substrate already that you don't need to be adding soil.