Planted tank help needed!!!

[fishclubgirl]

and perhaps some detritus too!!

[Cgy_Betta_Guy]

I was going to go looking for a timer for sure when I go to Canadian tire or home depot as almost everyone recommends it.

Thanks again for your help

Thought I would mention that you can get a relatively decent pair of timers from Ikea for about 8 bucks I think it is. They are simple 2 prong without the ground and use a dial that you click the times you want activated... no pegs to push in or lose. You can find them by the lighting section in the Marketplace on the main floor.

[Wackinator]

I agree with bettafishmommy. Keep the lighting around 1.5 or under. Otherwise you might run into problems with algae.

I am hoping to have an algae eating crew so Im not too worried about that. I was planning to put Black Mollies, ottos, Maybe a bristlenose pleco depending on space and how much of everything else I get, a couple of sweet snails and red cherry shrimps and Ive read that all of them help with algae. Please correct me if I was wrong.

Thanks again

"but is there any specific problem with using dirt?"

You will find that it will compact and in a few years will have to be replaced, think 2-3 years. Usually works great, for a time.( BTW 3/4 inch is more than enough)

However you will not know how it will work with the specifics in your tank; and without co2 you might be battling a lot of algae, for a long time, especially in the beginning. You have no control over the plant nourishment present in the soil, so once it is in there you are stuck. This is why it is not a good beginner substrate. (From past experience )

2 " of pool sand is cheap and works well for most folks. Deeper is not really a requirement. If you can afford it, fluorite is a good media.

Have fun and take it slow.

John

Hey thanks for your reply. I think Ill be able to get one bag of fluorite and mix it in with the sand to help with plant growth and color.

Thanks

So... if you've had the tank set up for a while, what kind of substrate is in there now? Chances are that an established tank will have enough mulm and crud in the substrate already that you don't need to be adding soil.

Hmm I didnt think of that but the substrate I have right now is gravel and Its not deep enough for my liking so I was going to change it.

Thanks though =]

[Wackinator]

Planted tanks are actually quite easy if you GO FOR IT from the start. The problem with 'easing into it' is that, if you decide you want to start feedin your few plants (ferts), you'll also feed algae and struggle with keeping it at bay.

From my experience, you'll want to plan for filling the tank w. plants from the get-go, if you want a lush tank with little problem from algae. Your plans for lighting are perfect, but do also plan for a carbon source. Seachem Excel is nice for a 20 gal.

IMO, you should wait for an upcoming auction - you'll get enough plants to fill your tank for the same price, or less, as 5 or 6 plants from the LFS.

When I set up a tank from scratch, this is how I do it (for cheap):

1)add 2-4" of Quickrete Play Sand (from Home Depot - brand is important) or SIL 8 (from Sil Industries)

2)add root tabs where heavy root feeders (Swords, Crypts, Lotus, etc) will be (I have used Tropica, Seachem and 1/4s of Jobe's for palms & ferns with success)

3)fill tank 3/4 with water - add slowly, maybe onto a plate so as to not stir the substrate

4)add plants

- add enough plants so that at least 80% of the footprint is planted

- start with fast-growing plants (swords, val, stems)

- you can replace these in time, but starting with fast-growers will eliminate your need to cycle the tank before adding fish

5)feed your plants

- CO2 is the most important food. 2WPG or more, you'll need to supliment

- I don't like test kits, so I used the Estimative Index method of fertilizing. Some people say 50% WCs each week are too much work, but if you have a hose, it's really easy IMO

6)your tank is safe to add fish

If you skip steps (not enough plants, improper feeding of plants) your chance of algae is greatly increased.

Raj is right about Cabomba - it's a cold-water plant that doesn't do well in tropical tnaks. Limnophila sessiliflora is a good substitute.

Hey jvision, thanks a lot for that step by step instructions, they are going to help me a lot. And from the general consensus on this form it seems like a good plan to follow to so thanks again.

I am planning to do diy co2 so no worries about that, I was up late last night searching about that and found a couple of good links so as soon as I find them again, Ill start of that as well.

My only question is that if I only covered around 70% of the footprint would that create too much problems? Cuz some of the plants I want to let grow in so I have to leave some space for them. Yeah I do like the look of sessiliflora so I have planned to switch those two though I did have good luck with it last time. I am not too worried about Algae cuz I am planning on adding shrimps snails and fishes that should make a snack out of it lol.

As for plants, I normally dont end up to auctions as I dont normally have a ride lol though I would really like to go see but Ill look around here on the forums and I found cheap plants online ($1-$2) the only reason I havent bought them yet is cuz I dont have any way of paying online lol, no credit card or paypal yet. Now I just need to figure out all this carbon stuff and Ill feel ready enough to start lol.

But thanks again!

I do it the same as jvision has instructed, except I haven't done the root tabs. I do have a DIY CO2 on my 33 gallon though. I used Playsand for substrate, added a schwack of plants, added the DIY CO2 and then fish. All is good so far.

Hey, thanks for that and yeah Im going with his instructions, he seems to know what hes talking about, not that others arent, but its really straight forward and makes sense. Im going with a DIY co2 too as I cant afford the pressurized cylinders and all that, soon enough Ill add a schwack of plants and hope for the same luck as yours lol.

Thanks again

Planted tanks are actually quite easy if you GO FOR IT from the start. The problem with 'easing into it' is that, if you decide you want to start feedin your few plants (ferts), you'll also feed algae and struggle with keeping it at bay.

From my experience, you'll want to plan for filling the tank w. plants from the get-go, if you want a lush tank with little problem from algae. Your plans for lighting are perfect, but do also plan for a carbon source. Seachem Excel is nice for a 20 gal.

IMO, you should wait for an upcoming auction - you'll get enough plants to fill your tank for the same price, or less, as 5 or 6 plants from the LFS.

When I set up a tank from scratch, this is how I do it (for cheap):

1)add 2-4" of Quickrete Play Sand (from Home Depot - brand is important) or SIL 8 (from Sil Industries)

2)add root tabs where heavy root feeders (Swords, Crypts, Lotus, etc) will be (I have used Tropica, Seachem and 1/4s of Jobe's for palms & ferns with success)

3)fill tank 3/4 with water - add slowly, maybe onto a plate so as to not stir the substrate

4)add plants

- add enough plants so that at least 80% of the footprint is planted

- start with fast-growing plants (swords, val, stems)

- you can replace these in time, but starting with fast-growers will eliminate your need to cycle the tank before adding fish

5)feed your plants

- CO2 is the most important food. 2WPG or more, you'll need to supliment

- I don't like test kits, so I used the Estimative Index method of fertilizing. Some people say 50% WCs each week are too much work, but if you have a hose, it's really easy IMO

6)your tank is safe to add fish

If you skip steps (not enough plants, improper feeding of plants) your chance of algae is greatly increased.

Raj is right about Cabomba - it's a cold-water plant that doesn't do well in tropical tnaks. Limnophila sessiliflora is a good substitute.

Fromone plant geek to another potential plant geek. This is the step by step way to go.

Lol thank you, I am not a plant geek yet, will be soon hopefully but this is the way I'll go.

Thanks again

[Wackinator]

I once again apologize for always filling this website with stupid questions

No questions are ever stupid. How do you get the answers you are looking for if you don't ask? Keep these questions coming because we learn something new each time also. :thumbs:

I am currently using top soil with play ground sand in my 90 gallon tank (2.5 watts at 8 hrs each day on a timer with 2 x DIY co2). I also have all of those plants you named and they grow really well. I do dose fertilizers into the water column every so often (depends on plant growth and observation).

My advice:

- If you are looking for cheap, this would be the way to go since you already have the top soil. Make sure you sift/screen it and remove any sticks. Read the package on the topsoil and watch out that it isn't just cow dung as that will do absolutely nothing for your tank. lol

- Your light is pretty good. Many people use the same light setup on 10 gallon tanks. 6 hrs a day is good to start with (you don't want an algae invasion). Only increase the lighting interval if it is necessary. I dont' think you need to as all those plants are low light.

- You should purchase a timer for $10 at Home Depot/Rona/Canadian Tire/Walmart). Set it for the evening hours, so if you go to bed at 10 PM then have it turn on at 4PM.

- It doesn't matter what sand you use as long as you like the color. Playground sand is $7 at Totem. Clean the sand really well. The easiest way is to dump it into a bucket and run it under the tap. Just keep the water running until it runs clear. Then turn the water off and sift through the sand. Repeat with the water rinsing.

- For CO2 use either 'Seachem Excel $6 for 100ml at Big Als' following the directions on the bottle or use a DIY CO2 setup ($5 for tubing and check valve, then raid your moms fridge). This will depend on the amount of plants you have in your tank. Don't use DIY CO2 if you don't have many plants. You will definitely get an algae invasion.

- I wouldn't worry about dosing any fertilizers until you start to notice a deficiency in the new leaves of your plants. This will take some time to understand.

- My only negative with soil is that it gets messy.

PM me if you are interested in some plants. Your welcome to come take a look at my tank. This applies to anyone (located in Calgary).

Good luck!

lol thank you but as a couple of people on AA found out as soon as I joined it that Im always full of questions. Though everyone here is really helpful and I almost always find what I need to know =] I am planning to do my best to get one bag of fluroite and mix it with sand and just a handful of topsoil, its a recommendation Ive been hearing a lot lately lol.

Im planning on doing a DIY co2 using some of the links found here on AA as they seemed really helpful and yeah a timer is a must as I had a lot of trouble without it. and good warning with the cow dung, I had a friend try a nano except he accidentally picked up a bag of sheep manure instead. Good thing we caught it in time lol.

Ill keep you in mind as I will be looking for plants really soon as you ll be hearing from me in a couple of days probably lol.

Thanks for all your help though!

[Wackinator]

and perhaps some detritus too!!

Hey fishclubgirl,

Sorry for my ignorance but I have no clue what detritus is, I tried searching it up thinking it was plants but the best I get is that its dead skin, their waste and left over food.

Could you please explain what thats about?

Thanks

[fishclubgirl]

Perhaps my good friend and "planted tank goddess" Werner will answer that one for me

[werner]

Mulm = detritus = the crud that builds up in the substrate.

the substrate I have right now is gravel and Its not deep enough for my liking so I was going to change it.

Just add some more gravel to the required depth. People use soil under plain gravel in a new tank to give it a higher cation exchange capacity (the ability to hold nutrients for the plants). Since your tank is not new, you have already been increasing the CEC in the substrate via the mulm/detritus/crud. There's really no need to dig around and make a huge mess in there when you already have the necessary components. Besides, the transition period involved in submerging soils in the tank can take months; it's not so simple as just dumping some gravel on top of dirt and adding water.

Have a read of this article: Substrates for Aquarium Plants. "Under conditions of low or moderate lighting intensity, the aquarist may have success using the natural nutrients which accumulate from keeping fish."

I'm always a fan of the KISS^* principle...

^*Keep It Simple, Stupid

[timbruun]

I wouldnt' depend on algae eaters to keep the algae at bay. If the algae gets going it will be suddenly on everything in your tank. Or can be. Algae eaters can only eat so much and alot will only do it if there is nothing else to eat.

[fleshgear]

i have some florite in some of my tanks and mulm and crud in others and i cant tell the difference between them. i do regularly fertilize.

i would also put a lot of plants in the tank from the start. go for the crypts and anubias and swords but also put a few fast growing stem plants in to start with. i think this helps keep the algae down till the slower growing plants get settled in. you can fase out the fast growing plants after a while so you dont have to do as much trimming. for a planted tank i dont really like the play sand. i would use sil 9 it is $20 for 40 kgs and has a natural look.

as for the inch per gallon rule. in most of my planted tanks i go way over an inch per gallon. i also have good filters. that might make the difference.

[Wackinator]

Mulm = detritus = the crud that builds up in the substrate.

the substrate I have right now is gravel and Its not deep enough for my liking so I was going to change it.

Just add some more gravel to the required depth. People use soil under plain gravel in a new tank to give it a higher cation exchange capacity (the ability to hold nutrients for the plants). Since your tank is not new, you have already been increasing the CEC in the substrate via the mulm/detritus/crud. There's really no need to dig around and make a huge mess in there when you already have the necessary components. Besides, the transition period involved in submerging soils in the tank can take months; it's not so simple as just dumping some gravel on top of dirt and adding water.

Have a read of this article: Substrates for Aquarium Plants. "Under conditions of low or moderate lighting intensity, the aquarist may have success using the natural nutrients which accumulate from keeping fish."

I'm always a fan of the KISS^* principle...

^*Keep It Simple, Stupid

Lol thanks werner I personally like your kiss principle but I really really want to change my gravel into something darker so that it compliments some of the fish (tetras) that I put in. Maybe Ill just stick with gravel and buy a couple bags of black gravel. though a lot of people have told me to put some sand and then cover it with gravel so Ill see but thanks for your explanation.

And thanks a lot for the link, just skimmed it and planning to read it in the next half an hour or so.

Thanks

[Wackinator]

I wouldnt' depend on algae eaters to keep the algae at bay. If the algae gets going it will be suddenly on everything in your tank. Or can be. Algae eaters can only eat so much and alot will only do it if there is nothing else to eat.

Hmmm good point, another night of reading online made me realize that but I found another way to stop an initial algae attack, I can just leave a lot of plants for the first week or so floating around, and it ll help with algae, and then remove them later.

But thanks!

i have some florite in some of my tanks and mulm and crud in others and i cant tell the difference between them. i do regularly fertilize.

i would also put a lot of plants in the tank from the start. go for the crypts and anubias and swords but also put a few fast growing stem plants in to start with. i think this helps keep the algae down till the slower growing plants get settled in. you can fase out the fast growing plants after a while so you dont have to do as much trimming. for a planted tank i dont really like the play sand. i would use sil 9 it is $20 for 40 kgs and has a natural look.

as for the inch per gallon rule. in most of my planted tanks i go way over an inch per gallon. i also have good filters. that might make the difference.

Hey Fleshgear

Thanks for that and yeah Im planning to fill my plant 60-70% with plants and then maybe have a couple of floaters just to help me fight the algae, Ill look up sil9 cuz Its the natural look I really really want.

Ive made a list of all the fish I want in there and Im probably going to post that once I get the tank in shape so people can edit it out for me cuz it looks like it will also go way over an inch per gallon.

Ill also look around for a better filter.

Thanks again!

[Wackinator]

Ive had to change and lower the lighting to 30 watts so that gives me 1.5 watts per gallon. It was either that or leave the planted idea behind for another couple of months or something.

I really hope thats enough lighting for the plants Ive posted.

Thanks

[BettaFishMommy]

that should be more than enough. just make sure that when you go to do the planting you don't have any plants stuck in the shade of other plants.

[Wackinator]

that should be more than enough. just make sure that when you go to do the planting you don't have any plants stuck in the shade of other plants.

Thank you

Just wanted to get a confirmation so Going back to Canadian Tire to get the other bulbs.

Thanks again