theokie Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 So it appears I need some help, My 8 gallon flora seems to have the unholy ability to kill any new shrimp I add to it in under an hour, well except for Amano shrimp. Three weeks ago I added 3 Whisker shrimp to the tank and within 3 hours they were upside down on the substrate and twitching, I quickly netted them and moved them to my 20L where they managed to recover. I thought it was an ammonia spike or something as I was starting to get a hint of green water, so I changed 75 percent of the water and watched the remaining inhabitants for any signs of stress, I have 8 Otto's, 10 Amanos, and one Clown Killie as well as about 6 horned Nerites in the tank. Ammonia, Nitarte and Nitrite all test at 0, PH reads 7.2, drop checker is nice and green. So three weeks later and all appears well, so I attempted to add 3 Wood shrimp and within an hour the same thing was happening, so I quickly netted them out and hopefully they will recover in the other tank, once again, all test kits are reading fine, so I am completely stumped. I am doing twice a week water changes on this tank using tap water treated with prime, and doing EI with seachem products for now, and injecting Co2 to 30ppm. The only conclusion that I can come to is that the Miracle Grow Organic potting soil that I have as base substrate with FLuval stratum caping is leaching something out, though I am completely stumped as to why none of the Amano shrimp are effected. Any suggestions anyone can give would be greatly appreciated, as I'm about to tear the tank down and start fresh, losing the glosso carpet and really upsetting the plants that are just starting to pearl nicely. Help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingin' It Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 what kind of test kit/system are you using? Some kinds of shrimp are super sensitive...and it sounds like you have a large bio load already with all those ottos, amanos and snails in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprucegruve Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 I have been using the API brand test kits for my water parameters they seem to work well. Also yes seems like a large bioload for the little 8 gal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theokie Posted June 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 I have been using the API brand test kits for my water parameters they seem to work well. Also yes seems like a large bioload for the little 8 gal I have been using API brand kits, less then 6 months old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprucegruve Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Do you use the API 5'in 1 test strips, or do you use the liquid vial ones? The strips dont work well in my experience. did you use any chemicals in the tank recently to treat sickness or anything? Maybe it's the bioload, you said you do 2 x weekly water changes,'what % of the water do you change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurensdad Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Maybe pick up a cooper test kit read the soil see if there's any heavy metals in it. Do you have a po4 test kit phosphate. I use the API one big als has it the other brsnds a pain to use. I go more off phosphate for water changes then the other kits. How do you know your co2 is 30ppm are you useing 4dkh water or tap water what is KH at ? Is your co2 24/7? Do you have a copy of a co2/ Ph/kh chart. Good luck Edited June 4, 2011 by laurensdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppygirl Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 You wrote that your water test levels for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate were 0. In a fully cycled tank there is usually some nitrates unless it is a heavy, heavy planted tank. If you are using the liquid test kit for nitrate you have to smack the #2 bottle long and hard on a hard surface to get the reagent in the bottle to mix properly. Once the bottle has been smacked follow the instructions and you may find that your nitrates are high. I have very little experience with shrimp-I have lost ghost shrimp and now have some green shrimp that seem to be holding there own. Others on this site have way more experience than me. Good luck :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 yeah u need some nitrates. 0 can not be right or u have a uncycled tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBRSMOM Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) There is another thread in AA about shrimp that I read recently. The contributor was called ShrimpsRUs and they made a comment about shrimp and prime that you might find interesting. Not sure how to attach the thread so I copied what they put. The name of the thread is: How To Keep Crystal Red Shrimp Right? , if you want to follow it from beginning to end. Good luck!H ShrimpsRUS "I'm going to jump in here with something....I have had BAD experience with shrimps and Bettas using PRIME! Killed all of my Bettas in 2 days, when I used it for their tanks. I also know others that have had die offs and have been using Prime...don't know what it does, but something the shrimps don't like. I only use Amquel+ for my water topups, and I don't change my water unless I detect ammonia in it (which I have never had happen) I keep duckweed floating on the top for the nitrates/nitrites and use Fluval Stratum soil too. I found however that the PH does go back up over 7 after a few months with this soil....so might want to check your PH. CRS are very susceptible to PH swings and they also don't like very warm water....where they come from the streams can be very cold." Edited June 4, 2011 by TBRSMOM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettaFishMommy Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) from my reading and chatting with other fish nerds, using Prime in an unfiltered betta bowl is not advised, but using it with bettas in a filtered tank is perfectly fine. since i switched to Prime, i've kept two bettas in separate tanks with no issue, and i'm a 'tad' heavy with the Prime when i do water changes, lol. i've also kept shrimp (green and red cherry) in tanks dosed with Prime, and no issues there either. i would agree with laurensdad, there could be something leaching out of the miracle grow soil that is harming new shrimp, whereas the older shrimp are acclimated to the conditions in the tank. your bioload is also quite high for that size tank. i'd consider moving some ottos and snails out of there. as for zero nitrates, there should be some showing on your test, especially with that bioload. unless your tank is chock full of plants and has little for livestock, you will have nitrates. in regards to the proper procedure for the API nitrate test, you have to shake bottle #2 really well for 30 seconds, not smack it against something. Edited June 4, 2011 by BettaFishMommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theokie Posted June 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 Thanks for the suggestions, as for the nitrates the only time I ever detect any is about 2 hours after I dose after that it drops off quickly as the tank is very heavily planted, full glosso carpet, 6 inch flame sword, cabamba background, a few other medium sized foreground plants, I am also rooting a few plant cutting in it right including a willow branch. For Filtration I am running an ehiem 2213 that has an inline diffuser for C02 which is checked in a drop checker with 4dkh solution prepared with distilled water. What ever it is in the tank, the shrimp recover as soon as I move them to the other tank, as I awoke this morning to find the wood shrimp happily filtering away in the other tank.. The tanks that I have used with Flourite and play sand have always been fine, so I am beginning to think it is the dirt layer under the stratum. How would I go about testing for metals like copper? Though shouldn't this be effecting the amanos and snails as well? as I use the same tape water for water changes on both tanks. I think I will give it another day and then tear it down to remove the substrate, go with the tried and true flourite or sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettaFishMommy Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 or instead of tearing it down, you could enjoy a plant only tank, with no livestock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theokie Posted June 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 or instead of tearing it down, you could enjoy a plant only tank, with no livestock. Thats what my other half suggested, just leave it with whats in there right now, since they appear to be doing fine. But then again he tells me the tank is boring with out colorful fish, so I guess there is no pleasing him, then again the red flame sword is turning out very red under the led lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprucegruve Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) I guess you could do that, it's kinda fun watching grass grow lol Worse comes to worse try a different substrate if you get bored of just plants Edited June 4, 2011 by Sprucegruve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewels Posted June 4, 2011 Report Share Posted June 4, 2011 , , and one Clown Killie Whats Killing My Shrimp? Pseudepiplatys? Give him time; perhaps he cannot finish his breakfast in one bite. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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