Crystal Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I finally got permission to build a large in-ground pond, and I figured the easiest way to heat it a couple of degrees would be the "solar black tube" method. The pump will pump the water in pvc pipe onto the roof and then flow down a pvc switchback along the roof and back down into the pond. The pvc is all enclosed, like a water changing python. My question is, if I pump the water up to 13 feet (max head height of pump is 14 feet), will the siphon effect cause the water to hit a faster flow rate? At 13' the pump is rated for about 150 gph, which fine by me, but since there is a siphon after the peak height, will the flow increase? Once the water reaches the peak, it is all downhill from there, and there is far more downhill tubing than previously passed uphill tubing. edit: uploaded a picture. Edited May 23, 2012 by Crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damtrees Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 not sure about the flow rate and i wonder if you even need to heat it plus i know of a few people heating there hot tubs in a same way how do you plan on controlling the temp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) The temp usually hovers around 14-16C, a bit cool for the fish and plants. I am looking into if I can install a "switch" that is triggered by temp range, When cooler, it would go to the heater and then to the waterfall. When the max temp is hit, the water would bypass the heater and go straight to the waterfall. The pond will also be 1000G+, which I don't' think will be the easiest to heat. Does anyone know of such a switch? I haven't even really looked into it. Maybe it would just be easier to use two pumps. Edited May 23, 2012 by Crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 perhaps go to a dedicated plumbing supply shop or pick the brains of some of those pro pond builders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 There are pond heaters that are set by thermostat - they're made for winter and turn on when the water reaches 50F or so. But, having the pump plug into a thermostat shouldn't be too difficult. Also, a 1000 gal pond isn't really that big and the temp can get into the 90s during the summer unless it's VERY shaded - if the thermometer says it stays at 14-16 all summer, I'd get a new thermometer. Most of our tropicals should be able to live outside in an Alberta pond from late Jun to early Sept, depending on temperatures. Many of the sub-tropicals (including many corys, Gymnogeos, plecos, etc.) can stay in longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Will this be just for summer use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted May 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 This is just for summer use. The fish will be overwintered inside. I shudder to think of winter heating costs in a pond... The thermometer is correct, I checked with three of them - Athabasca is an average of 5C cooler than Edmonton. I tried guppies one summer, they were still sluggish on the much hotter south-west facing deck - they didn't even reproduce :shock: . I wouldn't do it again, the guppies weren't happy and I put them back inside when I could catch them. A pool on the ground will lose lots of heat to the soil. I had a smaller 300G pool before - it hit a max peak temp of 21C for 3 days one summer. Other than that, the hottest 2-3 weeks of summer saw the pool at 18-19C. The rest of the time it was cooler. There are quite a few trees in our yard, although the pond plants grew well. I am more interested in running it in the spring and fall, rather than on the hottest summer days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 If you're only going to run the pump intermittently, it will drain when it shuts off. You could put a check valve right after the pump so that only the last potion of the hose will drain. To keep from losing almost all of the water in the hose, loop it back up to the highest point before returning it tithe pond. Because the water will not be leaving the hose at a lower level than where it enters the hose, a siphon isn't created; just the water between the highest point and the end of the hose will drain out (assuming a check valve). Try an experiment when you do yor next WC if you have a spare valve that fits your WC hose. Run the hose (with the valve on the end in the tank) from your tank up a foot or so (put a pail or something on top of the tank to run the hose over) then to the drain. Start the siphon, and when it's running, close the valve. Only the water after the highest point should drain out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremoose Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 To answer your question: yes, the syphon will increase the flow-rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewels Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 If the outlet is underwater - there will be no syphon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayba Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Just to throw another variable in. When using the return on a sump, doesn't it have to be larger than the inlet? Would you not want the downward portion larger than the uphill portion? Just a thought. It may be a mute point, but it came to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainechow Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 As long as the flow rate in the pipe via gravity is faster than the pump's flow rate you probably don't have to worry about it. But that is only in the case of a sump or if this heating system had a vent at the top to break the syphon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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