Tank Busters

[Tanker]

This thread is probably going to spark up some pretty strong opinions, and that's kind of my point. I want to know how others feel about this, and maybe if there is some sort of consensus, help me to try and 'fix' it.

I personally feel that no retail outlet where fish are sold should have for sale a fish that may exceed 24" in total length. I simply do not see the point in it, or the advantage to anyone. Selling a cutesy 8 inch fish to someone with cool markings is all fine and dandy since he's the big shot on the block and has a 120 gallon tank... but given time and it won't matter how cool the fish is when it's crammed into the equivalent of trapping a human in a space no longer, wider or taller than the human is.

I guess the big questions are "What are stores thinking when they bring in a fish like that? Who is their target buyer? Do they even want to sell them?"

If there are enough voices on here to generate the interest, I would be happy to approach the stores and ask them to remove these species from their tanks as being for sale. Or at least ensure that they are fully aware of the implications of selling an animal that will not bring any joy to themselves or the animal in the long run.

I'm climbing off the soapbox, now... anyone else want to climb on and have a say?

[Big Red 265.]

Some people have exceptionally large tanks, 450gal and even bigger, or indoor ponds. I don't think people should keep realy large fish in small tanks but they should be free to keep them in an appropriately sized one. Thus the LFS should carry them, leaving it up to the consumer to exercise comonsense.

A last thought. You could take a fish like an Elec Blue Hap (Grows to 5-7 inches in length) which is not a big fish and stick them in a 2.5, 5, or even a 10gal tank. It's all about people who choose to keep fish using their brain.

[Vallisneria]

I personally think that stores shouldn't carry fish that get ridiculously large(like ID sharks,RTC, sturgeon). Becuase most of the people buying these fish do not have 400g+tanks or ponds. If people have tanks that big and want certain large fish they can special order them in to the store but i don't think they should be available all the time.

A last thought. You could take a fish like an Elec Blue Hap (Grows to 5-7 inches in length) which is not a big fish and stick them in a 2.5, 5, or even a 10gal tank. It's all about people who choose to keep fish using their brain.

But Big Red 265 does have a point. Any fish can be crammed into a tank thats too small. But i still believe the demand(from people with appropriate sized tanks) for these giant species isn't enough to have tanks full of them at stores.

How many people do you know that have had ID sharks at one time or another? Now how many of those people actually had tanks that would support a 3 foot fish?

- Good topic Tanker

[Nandopsis]

There are valid points to both side of the coin.

The fish store has the right to bring in these monsters, but they also have the resonsibility to feed these vacums untill they are sold or sent back to the supplier.

If people are made aware of how large these get then they will not buy them, and only a few priveleged people with the space available to house one will get the chance.

Either way it's buyer beware. Don't buy a fish that you can't house properly!

[ÐÉÅÑ]

Don't buy a fish that you can't house properly!

I agree 100%, well said.

[rahim101]

well, I only keep african cichlids and in all honesty, I really don't know much about the fish above,

Could you name and describe a few such species that get very large???

It's hard to make a comment on something for me with out knowing all the information as well as ave a few examples to base my opinion on!!!!

Thanks

[neatfreak]

some stores are the only ones to find the right home

for fish when ,[other stores don't care about size :grr: ]

when it's to late and there a foot or bigger.Give the fish a chance to live .

if zoo's would house them,like a rescue,this fish would live longer.[like S P C A }

teach us and others the right way to enjoy this hobbie.

Are we not for the life of fish in all there beauty? :well:

[arixonbarnes]

Red tailed cats - 4 feet plus, Albino channel cats - 40 inches plus, alligator gars - up to 10 feet. And all the aforementioned are for sale in LFS in Edmonton. Even a 360 gal (6 feet x 4 feet wouldn't be enough for these beasts.

[cichlidkid]

I agree with jay

I would like to point out something that happened at golds,

they where selling dovii, one of the meanest and deffinently one of the biggest cichlids you can get. they had quite a few but I gauntee that there arnt that many people as there was fish that are ready to take on a full grown male dovii. but I walk in there, a 14 year old kid and say I want to buy a dovii. I dont know who i was that sold my my second dovii but tat erson made damn sure I was up to it. he asked how long I had been keeping fish, if I knew how big and agressive these guys got and lastly, if I had a tank big enough to hold such a monster. well I told him I didnt but I planed on getting one before he/she got to big for my 90. The salesman said I should probably wait to get one.

I thought that was very well done and professional, when a freind asked dennis to buy his red devil he was also asked about his tank situation.

cudos to golds!!!

btw I got my dovii :shifty:

[midgetwaiter]

I personally feel that no retail outlet where fish are sold should have for sale a fish that may exceed 24" in total length. I simply do not see the point in it, or the advantage to anyone.

Tanker I think you probably don't have any idea how large the market is for fish this big. A 24" limit would eliminate a lot of popular fish like Arrowanas. There are many more people that can keep a fish like this properly than I had suspected before I started working at a store. There are a lot of 250+ gal tanks out there. There are even more large indoor or outdoor heated ponds.

I'm not saying that there are not issues, nobody should get a cute little Channel Cat without knowing what they are getting into. Unfortunately that does seem to happen quite a bit, I get a lot of customers that come in and try and trade in all manner of things. Sometimes they didn't know what the fish was and sometimes the "upgrade in a year" plan went off the rails. The future upgrade plan dies a lot, I don't think people should buy something unless they can keep it with what they currently have.

What gets me about this is not a specialty store like Riverfront or Golds selling big fish to people that want them, it's chain stores like Pet Smart and Walmart selling tank busters with incorrect information. I had a couple come in with a Channel Cat from Pet Smart they bought as an "Albino Columbian Shark", it ate everything else in the tank. We also often get things just abandoned at the store, I walked up to the till one day and there was a 2 foot ID shark in a garbage bag just sitting there.

You can't paint all retailers with the same brush. If a store is willing to sell these fish in a responsible manner I don't really have a problem with it. I do however doubt that every ID Shark Walmart sells is going in a 200 gal tank.

[nevchewy]

You can't paint all retailers with the same brush. If a store is willing to sell these fish in a responsible manner I don't really have a problem with it

I don't believe its the buyer's fault for buying fish that they will never beable to keep due to its size but rather the store that sold the fish in questions to the buyer.

my 2 cents is for the chain stores to be more educating to the buyer. Maybe adding to their fish description their recommended tank size as they grow.

Take oscars for an example.

you'll see at chain stores their max size on the profile sign by the tank's but no where will you see, when they are adults that you should have 1 per every 50 gallons. stuffing 6 small oscars seem fine but if the chain store mentioned the whole store from purchase to what will happen as they grow... we may have more educated fish heads.

placing the blame on the buyer will only discourage the new fish buyer from keeping fish long term.

a lot of good points have been made... but i would have to say that all stores should be able to bring in what ever fish they have a market for. I just believe that they should provide the buyer with as much education as possible to prevent a new buyer from buying the wrong fish for them.

my 2 cents...

nev

[wandj]

Of the THOUSANDS of tank busters sold in the past (and currently), how many of us can honestly say we've seen a full grown specimen? Anyone see a 4 foot Red tail cat? How about an ID shark? Of the millions of Common plecos, where are they all? :well:

Let's take a good hard look at the most common fish buyer. This buyer makes up about 95% of purchases from any fish store. This "buyer" often has just started up their first tank for little Billy and has never even heard of "new tank syndrome".

I will give you a few personal examples. I work in a workplace with over 350 people employed. Most close coworkers of mine know my involvement in fish. One person was adding bacteria culture (Cycle) to her tank to cure a fungus infection. (Hoo boy) Then I discovered she was using un-treated town water for her water changes. (Chlorine) (This after I finally convinced her that water changes were a good thing.) :shock:

Another guy picked up a tank at a garage sale for the kids. He doesn't even know how big the tank is. "Dumped" in the fish right out of the bag and wondered why he keeps losing them. I did give him a fish book, but then he admitted the wife threw it in the garbage. His fish keep dying save for one.

My neighbour's daughter killed over 30 fish I gave her (in the span of 6 months). I don't know how she did it. Last I saw the tank, the water level was 2 inches below the top. I asked her about her water changes. What a good little liar she thought she was.

Another coworker bought a Pictus cat for his 10 gal. I told him it grew around 6 inches. I told him he would need a bigger tank one day. What did he do? He bought ANOTHER one and put it in the same tank.

My point?

MOST fish buyers don't give a **** about the well being of fish. To them, fish are disposable. Most of these people flush their un-beloved pets when they tire of them. Forgive me for having a heart, but is that any way to treat an animal in your care? Would you do that to your cat or dog?

Back to this tank buster issue. THE PET FISH OF THE WORLD NEED TO BE PROTECTED FROM THE IGNORANT! :grr:

You can blame the buyer or the pet store, it is both sometimes. I have been guilty of buying a fish I didn't research. And Walmart and PetSmarts are the most ignorant fish places. My local Walmart doesn't even know that the fish they are selling are dyed. Hmmm, is that pink and blue color natural? :bang1:

If a real hobbyist wants a tank buster, FINE! Then they should be ORDERED! Why? This means that someone serious about fish has researched the animal before requesting it and hopefully has a tank ready for it.

I am so saddened by so many useless deaths of fish because of the cruelty of their owners. Accidents happen, but come on, when someone doesn't even TRY to find their mistake a new home, who pays?

[midgetwaiter]

If a real hobbyist wants a tank buster, FINE! Then they should be ORDERED! Why? This means that someone serious about fish has researched the animal before requesting it and hopefully has a tank ready for it.

This is just not feasible. Either you will have tanks and tanks of fish languishing at a local importer while they wait to move them (driving prices up sharply) or you will be bringing a single fish from the Far East, making that $5.99 price tag into $300. Fish are not imported as singles, it would cost just as much to ship one tetra (or baby ID shark) as it would to ship 500.

Responsible retailers are the key, if you don't like how a store conducts itself don't buy there.

Let's take a good hard look at the most common fish buyer. This buyer makes up about 95% of purchases from any fish store. This "buyer" often has just started up their first tank for little Billy and has never even heard of "new tank syndrome".

Again with the responsible retailer bit.

I hate to break this to you, but without those people buying up 20 gal starter kits you would not be able to keep fish. If all of a sudden the market was reduced to fish heads the hobby would vanish overnight. The way manufacturing works in our world makes it just as about as expensive to build a few hundred of something as it is to build 20,000. Of course, if you are the manufacturer of that product you can have to sell that stuff and make some money back. It's the difference between a $75 AC 500 and a $500 AC 500. Would you still keep a bunch of tanks if your equipment and livestock were worth 800% of what they are now?

Yeah it stinks but it is what it is.

[ÐÉÅÑ]

Well said wandj !

Just take goldfish for example, they have a tiny bowl named after them yet they can reach sizes closing in on 2 feet.

Edited September 28, 2005 by ÐÉÅÑ

[dunl]

I don't believe its the buyer's fault for buying fish that they will never beable to keep due to its size but rather the store that sold the fish in questions to the buyer.

I don't agree with that. The buyer should be willing to do SOME research on what they are buying. It's not that hard to do.

If you go to buy scuba equipment, does the store need to check to see if you are qualified? If you buy brake pads, do they check for a mechanic's license?

You need to research things yourself. The fact is, the majority of people are too lazy to do so.....