CORVETTE Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 FROM HAGEN....A FAQ RESPONSE TO MAP Effective May 1st, 2007 Hagen implemented a “Minimum Advertised Price Policy”. Simply put, this sets a minimum price that Hagen products can be advertised for. We have taken great measures to encourage retailers to provide high levels of customer service and to provide some protection from Internet discounters who reduce prices without regard for service. What does this mean for you? The end of large disparities in advertised prices between the Internet and your store is near (at least, where Hagen products are concerned). We are not just preaching our belief in your business; we are practicing it and hope that we will earn the right to do more business! MORE Our Minimum Advertised Price policy is another resource that we feel will lead to your success in today’s marketplace. The goal of our M.A.P. policy is to end the pricing gap between discount outlets and full service retail locations. M.A.P. policies work by establishing pricing limits on advertised products. Advertising is defined in our policy as published prices distributed to the public. Distribution to the public includes flyers, direct mailings, internet publishing as well as traditional advertising mediums such as newspapers, radio and television. Our M.A.P. policy in no way determines the actual retail price. M.A.P. prices are established using a simple formula based on Dealer Cost and MSRP. Our pricing policies are not intended to inhibit the free market approach to retail pricing structures. By setting and maintaining certain price policies, we are able to establish a true retail value for our products, while at the same time, leveling the playing field for all of our retail partners. This is especially true for our high end filtration and lighting products such as Fluval FX5 Filters and GLO T5HO lighting. By establishing pricing limits, consumers will naturally gravitate towards the best service outlets. Thus, retailers will no longer be competing based on the price factor alone.With a level pricing structure, consumers will no longer have to choose between great customer service and price. Just wondering what everyone thinks of this response..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 From what I gather from what is written, the filters (and other products) can still be sold for whatever a store wants; however, they are not allowed to advertise the fact that they'll sell them lower than this MAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CORVETTE Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thats what i'm getting from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happeboy Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 price fixing, sorry controlling, by manufactures and distributors is just a sorry fact of life I guess in many business areas, especially on the net. I do agree that they are saying that its not really a fixed price though, and can be sold at what ever the store wants. In reality they probably will keep tabs on the real prices certain stores sell at and if they go to low I'm sure there would be some action taken. Basically I think its a bunch of BS that they first are trying to feed us about better service, and the truth is when they say they are trying to protect the integrity/value of their brand. But consumers will decide what price is right for them; there are lost of alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooUrns! Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 So you can sell them as cheaply as you like, you just can't advertise the fact. I guess people like Frank will have to continue to act as the herald if we're going to get any more good deals on these things. If it's going to come down to a price comparison between Hagen's overpricing of inferior products and the high import cost of eheim's superior product lines, I think I'm going to pick quality over price gouging. I can't beleive they even mention free market enterprise in that statement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_sheebz Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 anyone hagen finds out about selling filters cheaper than them, usually just cut off their next order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CORVETTE Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I've stated this before in another thread but stores should be able to sell products for what ever price they want. Even if this means they take a loss on them. Small stores could sell products for less to drag in customers to buy other products. If you sell a filter for a 20 dollar loss but sell 2-300 dollars of fish with a 100 percent mark up you make a good profit and the customer will come back for the good deals. This makes sense to me just like location or store size can play a big diffrence. A store in a out of the way location, thats relativly small could have lower prices due to a lower over head. They shouldn't have to sell a product at the same price as someone with a huge new store in a prime location... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
African_Fever Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Is there anywhere that has the GLO T5HO flourescents at ridiculously low prices? (comparable to the $220 vs. $400 sugg. on the FX5's?) I know I'd definitely be interested in some of them. There is at least one store in Calgary that is always selling FX5's for close the price Frank was getting them; PM me if you're interested in which one (I know they don't advertise it either, but it would be nice to see more people supporting locals guys). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooUrns! Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Is there anywhere that has the GLO T5HO flourescents at ridiculously low prices? (comparable to the $220 vs. $400 sugg. on the FX5's?) I know I'd definitely be interested in some of them.There is at least one store in Calgary that is always selling FX5's for close the price Frank was getting them; PM me if you're interested in which one (I know they don't advertise it either, but it would be nice to see more people supporting locals guys). I beleive you're refering to Gold's aquariums. I posted about the low prices he was offering last winter. Between Gold's price ($250 +gst at the time) and the cost of driving out to the store that Frank brokered the deal with, the costs work out to be the same, unless you can get yours delivered. Either way, the suggessted retail of $400 is ridiculous and Hagen should be investigated for their attempts to artificially control prices. I've forgotton what the regulatory body is that governs pricing standards but I know they are out there. As much as I hate Hagen's corporate policies, let's not start another debate post. Or better yet, Let's sticky a full out hate Hagen thread! Compile all the different FX5 debates and Hagen hate threads into one super ANTI-HAGEN thread! :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 ...... and the truth is when they say they are trying to protect the integrity/value of their brand. Of course that's why they have taken these steps, and I personally wouldn't be surprised if at some point Hagen went so far as to join eBay's Vero program. eBay even discusses MAP on one of their "helpful guide" pages, found here. As I have stated in previous threads on this subject, I completely understand why a manufacturer may feel the need to protect the integrity or value of their products, this is simply smart business. If their prices are found to be overly high by consumers, then they will eventually be forced to adjust those prices. Having said that, I have no idea how Hagen Canada plans (if they are?) to get around the laws set forth by the Competition Act of Canada? I suspect that the info posted in the initial comment came from Hagen USA, and not from any Hagen source here within Canada. The Competition Act can & often will impose criminal liability where a person attempts "by agreement, threat, promise or any like means…to influence upward, or to discourage the reduction of, the price of which any other person…supplies or offers to supply or advertises a product within Canada." While it's perfectly legal within Canada to enforce a "maximum" selling price, it is not legal to set "minimum" prices by a manufacturer or distributor. It is also illegal in Canada to refuse to sell to a person due to their low pricing policy. While the recently overturned ruling by the US Supreme Court has now opened the doors for price maintenance in the USA, this activity is still highly illegal within Canada, and class action lawsuits, and/or major fines, can be the end result. You can read more on that subject here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 FYI - Kyle wasn't referring to Golds. As requested, PM him if you want more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooUrns! Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 FYI - Kyle wasn't referring to Golds. As requested, PM him if you want more info. lol Thanks for the clarification! Accurate as always RD! :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toirtis Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 It is also illegal in Canada to refuse to sell to a person due to their low pricing policy. They do not usually refuse, they just nil-order all their future orders....and if they do refuse to sell to a vendor, they just cite other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) If that's true, they only do so because no one has had the stones to take them to task. I'm fully aware of the exceptions that a manufacturer and/or distributor based within Canada are allowed to refuse to sell to a vendor, and they are very limited. My prediction, if Hagen pushes forth with their MAP policy within Canada, they will eventually find themselves at the losing end of a judges gavel. Stay tuned ........ Edited February 7, 2008 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocker85675 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 well researched and spoken rd. minimum prices? bs!!! OVER-inflating the price of thier own product is more like it.just cause its 'legal'(at least for now)dosent make it right! in my opinion, hagen are nothing more than gangsters. thank god for guys like frank. i love the idea of an anti-hagen superthread.it would be the bigest thread this site has ever seen.anyone?(anyone wana chance getting thier hand slaped by a mod?) you pissed off a few to many people this time hagen! LETS FIGHT!! :beer: :drunk: :boxer: :boxer: :boxer: :boxer: :boxer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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