roypark05 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 OK so I had my two Labeotropheus Fuelleborni (OB) breed recently, but while the female was holding, she was attacked by all the other mbuna, and has since been moved to a different tank. I have the follwing questions: 1. How likely is she to have lost her eggs/fry after repeated attacks? Will she hold on to them at all costs or will she spit them out to defend herself? (Note: I never saw her bite back once, which she would normally have done a bit, she just kept trying to hide) 2. What about eating? Will she eat while holding? I tried to feed her in her new tank and she ate but it really wasn't much. She barely ate at all. 3. She doesn't seem as puffy around the neck, but she seems to "ribbit" like a frog...almost looks like she's chewing but never really opens her mouth...is that what holding female mbuna are like? 4. Any other advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 1. Excess stress will probably cause a female to swallow eventually. 2. Most female Mbuna don't really eat when they're holding. 3. She's probably still holding 4. Most people who want to keep their mbuna fry move the holding female to a separate tank. I used to leave the female in w. the kids for a bit, making sure to feed everyone well so she wouldn't snack on them. Letting a female rest and plump up again after holding is a good idea; otherwise, she may just keep breeding and waste away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boom Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) I agree with Jason on everything, but will just add that the "ribbet like a frog" motion your seeing is her tumbling the eggs, which is normal. And that means they are still there! Boom :boom: Edited January 8, 2009 by Boom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Sometimes after they get attacked they dont eat due to stress, but if shes still not eating after a couple days then she is probably still holding. It is best if the females dont eat while they are holding because they tend to eat there babies or they end up damaging the egg/fry You may see this when she spits out her babies. It would be best not to put food in the tank with her so she is not tempted. You can plump her up after shes been stripped. Fish can go a long time without eating. Sometimes it is hard to tell if a fish spit out her eggs because their pouch can stay stretched for a couple of days It all depends on your fishes personality and how old they are. Some fish need to practice a few times before they have a successful holding. Others are great parents right off the bat. I have some fish that will never spit them out no matter whats going on and others without a doubt will spit them out at any sign of danger. These girls are frustrating because they need to be caught at some point. You can check if she is holding by taking her out of the tank and pulling her bottom jaw open with something. I use floss on a handle, those things for kids. Just take a look inside. After her 2 weeks of holding you can strip her babies into a bucket, five gallon, breeding trap.... whatever it may be. Sometimes when I strip them I let only one out to see how far along they are. To soon let her hold if you strip them all to soon, have an egg tumbler around. Most mbunas take about 2 weeks for the eggs to develop but it also depends on the species and how hot the water is. 78-79 for my guys is usually 16 days 80-81 is about 13-14 days. Any hotter can cause deformities in the fry due to growing to fast. If you let her hold for the full term and you dont plan on stripping her make sure she is in her own tank so she doesnt release them into a tank of fry preying predators. Also find out if your species of fish eat their own babies.... some do and some dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnaw Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Very interesting thread. I don't mean to hijack, but how do you know when a female mbuna is holding, other than scooping them out and opening their mouth. Are their visual indications? Edited January 8, 2009 by Gnaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qattarra Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 They look like they took a huge bite of something as their throat starts to swell . Often you can almost see through the skin and see eyes. A good early sign is the "chewing" as she rolls the eggs around in her mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Here is a thread that shows what a holding female looks like. http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=9507 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 At first I thought the same thing. What if I dont notice. But once they do it is fairly evident that they have babies in there mouth. Sometimes she wont tumble so just hang tight and watch if she is holding she will have to tumble her eggs (do a swooshing motion with her mouth). Another way to tell if they are ready to spawn is by taking a look at her vents. This is where the poo comes out. There are actually 3 vents, one is for reproduction. If you pay attention you will notice a light toned blob, these are her tubes or something where her eggs come out. Some fish show signs up to a week in advance The day(s) spawning takes place you will notice this to be distended. A day or so after spawning this will go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byte Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I don't mean to hijack, but how do you know when a female mbuna is holding, other than scooping them out and opening their mouth. Are their visual indications? Watch when feeding, the ones that don't come to eat are most likely holding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishkabod Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 On my red jewel you can't tell by looking for a bulging mouth because she doesn't seem to show it but one really noticeable thing is that she looks like she went from really really fat to sinny minnie in a day. Otherwise the best way to do things is as they have described up above. Good luck and Congratulations L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallisneria Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 On my red jewel you can't tell by looking for a bulging mouth because she doesn't seem to show it but one really noticeable thing is that she looks like she went from really really fat to sinny minnie in a day. Otherwise the best way to do things is as they have described up above. Good luck and CongratulationsL Jewel cichlids aren't mouthbrooders. They lay their eggs on a surface like decoration, plants or even the glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishkabod Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 On my red jewel you can't tell by looking for a bulging mouth because she doesn't seem to show it but one really noticeable thing is that she looks like she went from really really fat to sinny minnie in a day. Otherwise the best way to do things is as they have described up above. Good luck and CongratulationsL Jewel cichlids aren't mouthbrooders. They lay their eggs on a surface like decoration, plants or even the glass. Mine lay their eggs for a week then take them in their mouth and i don't see the babies until they no longer have eggsacks so i thought that meant mouthbroading? Either way you still can't tell when she has them in her mouth. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roypark05 Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 My jewels finished breeding recently, I just separated the fry today and the parents didn't seem too happy! Anyway, they didn't mouthbrood, but I read somewhere that they do some times, I think it depends on certain conditions like number of immediate threats in the tank. I'll try opening her mouth maybe, I sure hope she is still holding. A batch of OB Fuelleborni fry to go with my jewel fry is exactly what I'd like. I'm clearing out my tanks as best I can just to support all the fish I will hopefully have in the upcoming months! I'm also attempting to breed OB Peacocks and I'm lining up a female Magunga to breed with my male as well. Maybe I will be able to open up my own store soon lol. Thanks to everyone for helping me out here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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