Bandi Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I have read a little about the use of hormones in raising fish. Everything I have read up 'til now indicates the only benefit is for the breeder that in fact the use of hormones stunts growth, causes deformities and infertility in the fry. I bought a pair of severums from LFS in Calgary and they were the same size when purchased (probably siblings). I bought a male and female. I bought them because they showed great color. The two of have grown, but VERY slowly and the female I would have to say is stunted. I dare say her eyes seems a little enlarged as well. I have posted pictures to show the size difference of these two fish. Both raised in the same tank, same food, same conditions. I know females are likely to be smaller but after 6 months, this females is still only a fraction bigger than a loonie coin. The male, as you can see is not big, but considerably bigger than the female. Can I suspect hormones? Does this mean my female (and possibly male are infertile?) Are hormones to be expected when I buy from LFS or is this practice frowned upon? Should I tell the LFS my suspicions? I just would like to hear your thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingin' It Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 IMO...there can be a lot of things going on that nobody is aware of. Most LFSs order their fish from overseas...in oerseas operations, their main objective is to produce as many fish as quickly as possible & at the lowest price possible. Some people take their fry into the LFS for a credit of some kind, and in that there may be some inadequate gene differentiation or stunting for one reason or another. Sometimes growth depends a lot on water quality, food quality, etc. As in any birth, nature has a way of creating it's own 'look' (aka.deformity) I'm sure this doesn't help you much, but if you're really worried about it you can always try, try again with another pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORG Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 The use of hormoned laced food is not uncommon in asian fish farms, I'm not sure if it is used in the Florida farms. Since I keep mostly African cichlids I can usually spot hormoned fish as males and females will show enhanced colour. I found that the few types of South American cichlids I've kept here have grown very slowly. I believe it is my well water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishkabod Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 A while ago i was visiting Aqua Giant and they had in these beautiful bright deep pink nyassaie(sp?) and over the period of a month or so the colour on them (males and females) started to fade. The employee told me they had used hormones(came from asia) and that the fadeing is normal as they are still juvies but the colour would come back when they grew to adults. If you experinced the colour fade than maybe hormones are to blame. Anyway when the fish are taken off hormones the colour should fade and you should have seen that but that is not to say that it's a 100% accurate because i'm sure there are different hormones they use and every one is different. Maybe when you go back to that LFS politely inquire as to where they get the severums you bought and you might have your answer. Good luck L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 While the use of hormones (in feed &/or water) is a common practice in Asia, it's generally only used to enhance the color of a fish at an early age. The use of these hormones is illegal in the USA, so Florida fish should never arrive "juiced", unless they are being exported by a transhipper who deals in Asian bred fish. The strain of severums that you have are bred via line breeding, and are typically not hormoned. Growth Inhibiting Substances (GIS) is what typically causes stunting in fish. Stunting can occur in aquariums, as well as in the wild. This much we know for fact. But the jury still appears to be out as to whether this is caused by pheromones, increased levels of cortisol (from stress), due to aggression, poor water quality, etc. Sometimes the odd 'runt' fish will simply be a case of genetics gone bad, and no amount of food or clean water will change that. No offense, but considering the eclectic mix of fish that your severums are in with, I'm not overly surprised that they haven't been showing ideal growth. I think that a lot of people underestimate the effects of stress on the overall health of fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandi Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wow, thanks for all your information! And so fast too..you guys needs a life! Ha ha (like me). Well, I will stop jumping to conclusions, I guess justing reading about the hormones made me have my doubts. But two fish is hardly a solid ground on which to jump to conclusions. So, perhaps I will try again with another pair. Stress caused by un-usual collection in the tank...good point there. Never really considered that. Anymore info. is still welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Chicklets Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Are you using well water for your fish? If so it may be a contributing factor, S/A cichlids do better in softer water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipset Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 RD pretty much hit it on the head with a hammer. I completely agree. your tank seems to have many different variations of fish, and none of them are looking that great. Fish keeping is a very controversial I noticed. I believe fish keepers should do what would make the fish happy, not themselves happy. Make your fish happy and you won't have to jump to heinous conclusions. I apologize if I offended you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORG Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 RD pretty much hit it on the head with a hammer. I completely agree.your tank seems to have many different variations of fish, and none of them are looking that great. Fish keeping is a very controversial I noticed. I believe fish keepers should do what would make the fish happy, not themselves happy. Make your fish happy and you won't have to jump to heinous conclusions. I apologize if I offended you. I don't know what you are looking at but I don't see anything wrong with the fish. Fish keeping is a hobby not a controversial subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel al Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) I have read a little about the use of hormones in raising fish. Everything I have read up 'til now indicates the only benefit is for the breeder that in fact the use of hormones stunts growth, causes deformities and infertility in the fry.I bought a pair of severums from LFS in Calgary and they were the same size when purchased (probably siblings). I bought a male and female. I bought them because they showed great color. The two of have grown, but VERY slowly and the female I would have to say is stunted. I dare say her eyes seems a little enlarged as well. I have posted pictures to show the size difference of these two fish. Both raised in the same tank, same food, same conditions. I know females are likely to be smaller but after 6 months, this females is still only a fraction bigger than a loonie coin. The male, as you can see is not big, but considerably bigger than the female. Can I suspect hormones? Does this mean my female (and possibly male are infertile?) Are hormones to be expected when I buy from LFS or is this practice frowned upon? Should I tell the LFS my suspicions? I just would like to hear your thoughts on this. Back 15 years ago when I was wholesaling fish, I had a fish farm that I dealt with in the states & I had a long conversation with the owner on this very subject. He told me that he regularly split his discus spawns because a biologist he was working with said that some of the larger, faster growing fry released a hormone that inhibited growth in the smaller fry, so he would split them into 2 groups at the 3 week mark. He claimed he got better growth after that. Whether it was less competion for food or his smaller fish no longer being exposed to hormones I don't make a claim either way, but it is food for thought. You could try to move one of the 2 fish to another tank & see if the smaller fish begins to grow. It might make an interesting experiment. Edited October 31, 2009 by angel al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandi Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Back 15 years ago when I was wholesaling fish, I had a fish farm that I dealt with in the states & I had a long conversation with the owner on this very subject. He told me that he regularly split his discus spawns because a biologist he was working with said that some of the larger, faster growing fry released a hormone that inhibited growth in the smaller fry, so he would split them into 2 groups at the 3 week mark. He claimed he got better growth after that. Whether it was less competion for food or his smaller fish no longer being exposed to hormones I don't make a claim either way, but it is food for thought. You could try to move one of the 2 fish to another tank & see if the smaller fish begins to grow. It might make an interesting experiment. Interesting, you reminded me about something I read on that subject also. This may not be an artificial hormone related problem, but might be a naturally occuring hormone problem, created by other fish in the same tank. I have many fish in there, at various stages of growth. Who knows what hormones any given fish is sending off into the water. Facinating. See...this is why we bounce ideas off each other. Thanks! I'll see if i can find another compatable tank for the little gal. It might make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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