I don't like the Vendor Review Survey

[Natures Corner Store]

Feels more like the sponsors rule and the members get the shaft.

Sounds like maybe you should open your own store and start your own forum and see what happens?

Or, join a forum where you can do what you please.

Henry

---------

-----

[Tanker]

The long and the short of it is: if you have a problem with one of the top rated stores on the Survey, I'll eat my hat. If you have a problem with a lower ranked store, or a store that didn't even make the survey, then what the heck did you expect? Is the store you'd like to warn the world about one of the top ranked?? I'll go out on a limb and say "probably not".

This is like going to a food connoisseur website and complaining because you got gut-rot from KFC... if you eat good food, you make good turds, you'll live happy.

If you like a store, or hate a store, send me a PM with the store info. I'll include it in the next survey and we'll give the community a chance to sound off on them. Eventually I hope to develop a VRS that can be done one store at a time, and will tally along as entries are completed. This will allow 'reviews on the fly' and more of a real-time collection than the annual system I have in place, now. But until I get that sorted out... work with what we've got, support the top tier stores who support your hobby, and eat good food.

[Baos]

The long and the short of it is: if you have a problem with one of the top rated stores on the Survey, I'll eat my hat. If you have a problem with a lower ranked store, or a store that didn't even make the survey, then what the heck did you expect? Is the store you'd like to warn the world about one of the top ranked?? I'll go out on a limb and say "probably not".

This is like going to a food connoisseur website and complaining because you got gut-rot from KFC... if you eat good food, you make good turds, you'll live happy.

If you like a store, or hate a store, send me a PM with the store info. I'll include it in the next survey and we'll give the community a chance to sound off on them. Eventually I hope to develop a VRS that can be done one store at a time, and will tally along as entries are completed. This will allow 'reviews on the fly' and more of a real-time collection than the annual system I have in place, now. But until I get that sorted out... work with what we've got, support the top tier stores who support your hobby, and eat good food.

Sounds good, I look forward to the future. Sorry for being such a pain in the rear.. I realize I am.. I am suffering from a barrage of things right now including ocd. I tend to go nuts over a little thing like it's the end of the world.

[Kronosdelsol]

complaining because you got gut-rot from KFC... if you eat good food, you make good turds, you'll live happy.

This was so funny. Guess what I'm eating this weekend. KFC....

[Wingin' It]

This is like going to a food connoisseur website and complaining because you got gut-rot from KFC... if you eat good food, you make good turds, you'll live happy.

I just about bust a gut laughing at this one! Thanks for the laugh amongst the seriousness. Sometimes the world just needs a drink! LOL

[T Dawg]

I tend to go nuts over a little thing like it's the end of the world...Feels more like the sponsors rule and the members get the shaft.

Sounds like a great reason to stop people going off whenever they want to. Similar to the assumption made of who makes the rules we seem to get assumptions to what lead to what in stores.

Quite frankly the curbing of spouting is one of the reasons I spend so much time on this forum rather than forums where "people in the know" bash unchecked and at will. There are lots of forums out there that allow and seemingly encourage that if that is your choice, but I would prefer this board remain free of such things.

[CursiveDuck]

I rather do agree with T Dawg, if I wanted to hear every single vendor review that each and every member had, then I'd join a forum or venue in which to hear it. Not to mention there hasn't been a law course I've taken to date that said slander or libel will generally be taken lightly. In fact you could be held legally responsible, and there would be a good chance you would be, seeming as a review and warning not to shop somewhere is in direct conflict with their establishment. And just for a little nod to our beautiful Canadian legal system, the general lawsuit for defamation starts at around 10k and moves forward from there. That just seems like a lot of money to give KFC a piece of my mind, regardless of how it tastes or what it did to my tummy.

Duckie <3

P.S A lot of local pet store employees love to be given a little extra information here and there, specially if you specialize in something. Given its fair not all like to be corrected and some get distraught but try it next time, I use to work at a pet store and when it comes to fish especially, not a lot of the new employees know a lot, fish is probably one of the hardest and steepest learning curves, and with such numerous amounts of bad info out there it's hard for people to learn sometimes. Maybe instead of writing angry reviews, we could help another Albertan out and give them some real good insight into the hobby we all love and support.

Edited May 4, 2010 by CursiveDuck

[JLake]

Charged with slander or libel for relating a personal experience? I find that absurd, and i dont think my lawyer would have much trouble with that. I dont agree with slamming pet stores but sometimes ppl need to know.

Edited May 4, 2010 by JLake

[Baos]

On another note. I used to work at KFC for a few years. For some reason the new employees think that when you stir the oil that it cools it down. They don't understand you need to heat it up. Also if they're trying to make extra crispy chicken(extra breading) for you but don't realize they should at the least cook it under the dark meat setting, You get grease drenched chicken. However if it is done right you will have no grease at all. I look for the KFC with middle aged people working.

As for the other forums... Well I have spent a lot of time on the other forums lately because every time someone has a good opinion(not saying the current ones are good) they get reviewed to the vendor review survey that isn't all up to date and shut down with their opinion. bcaquaria openly accepts criticism about their vendors. It's only bad for the vendors if they aren't delivering what they promise.

[RD.]

Relating personal experience, and/or stating ones opinion, and keeping ones comments factual, is generally not a problem. But unfortunately that's not always how these types of discussions generally go. The reality is that defamation could definitely become an issue in some of these discussions.

I just recently went through this on another forum where someone was spouting off about something that they had not a clue about, and I can assure you that I could have easily taken legal action (and would have) had the admin of that site not removed the comments. (which they did, immediately) In that case, it would have been near impossible to supply any type of defense, and I would have been well within my rights to take legal action against the poster, and the forum, had these comments been allowed to remain. While I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, I believe that in Canada if one can prove that they have been libeled (which in this case my company was), and there is no defense for the loss of reputation, the law assumes damages and fixes an amount as compensation. The plaintiff does not even have to prove damages for actual financial loss.

And while your lawyer may not have much trouble defending such an action, he/she also won't have any trouble with billing you at $250 (or more) an hour for defending such an action.

The admin of this site has chosen not to invite public negativity, or to place themselves in harms way, which IMO was/is a smart move on their part.

Perhaps they would reconsider if the members here in support of open, public reviews, would offer a substantial donation that could be kept in escrow if/when the need for legal counsel comes up. Who want to donate the first $1,000.00?

BTW Baos, the situation that I was referring to above took place on none other than BCA.

Those threads were removed so quickly that most members weren't even aware that they took place. As previously mentioned, the owner of BCA was threatened legal action a few yrs ago by one of the LFS,and his response was to remove ALL negative threads on the subject, and disallow any/all negative comments about that LFS in the future. It is NOT simply a case of "It's only bad for the vendors if they aren't delivering what they promise." ........ it's also a case of a LOT of morons hang out on the internet, unfortunately, sometimes even on fish forums.

Edited May 4, 2010 by RD.

[Baos]

I understand RD. They reference those missing threads often in their chatroom. Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to read them and make up my own opinion. Tanker's stated that there is an improvement planned for it. And with my background I'll even offer to write it for free.

[fishclubgirl]

Words to live by "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" and "a bigger man walks away". And from America's Next Top Model "Rise above".

[CursiveDuck]

"Question: Can an opinion be defamatory? Answer: No ? but merely labeling a statement as your "opinion" does not make it so. Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact. (A verifiable fact is one capable of being proven true or false.) This is determined in light of the context of the statement. A few courts have said that statements made in the context of an Internet bulletin board or chat room are highly likely to be opinions or hyperbole, but they do look at the remark in context to see if it's likely to be seen as a true, even if controversial, opinion ("I really hate George Lucas' new movie") rather than an assertion of fact dressed up as an opinion ("It's my opinion that Trinity is the hacker who broke into the IRS database")."

Taken from:

http://www.chillingeffects.org/defamation/faq.cgi

Stating a pet store and saying "I just wouldnt buy a single fish off that dump because I assume that every fish there has this parasite." is asserting a fact in an opinion.

"Question: What are the elements of a defamation claim?

Answer: The party making a defamation claim (plaintiff) must ordinarily prove four elements:

1. a publication to one other than the person defamed;
2. a false statement of fact;
3. that is understood as
   a. being of and concerning the plaintiff; and
   
   
   b. tending to harm the reputation of plaintiff.

4. If the plaintiff is a public figure, he or she must also prove actual malice."

Taken from: http://www.chillingeffects.org/defamation/faq.cgi

Now given the current case, 1. You have already made a publication to at least one other than the person defamed, Myself. 2. It is a false statement of fact, the likely hood every fish in that store has that parasite is unlikely, and therefore the defense of truth is out of the question. 3. Of course it concerns the plaintiff, your bashing his/her store, and it is in intent of harming their store, aka You don't want people to shop there. Which could also constitute Malice if the plaintiff was a public figure.

Your lawyer just lost his case, and I the business owner am around 10k richer at least, depending, I could also claim punitive damages, due to the loss of business from your claim. Defamation is more of a risk here then you think, count your lucky stars that you haven't been pounced on yet.

[RD.]

Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to read them and make up my own opinion.

You're missing the BIG picture, when it comes to comments such as the ones that were being made about my company - I don't care about your opinion, or anyone else's for that matter.

The internet isn't the wild-wild west, where people can say & do anything that they want, just because they feel like it.

The comments being made were WAY over the top, from someone who has/had a personal axe to grind, and jumped into something that they didn't have the remotest clue about. They weren't posting a personal opinion, or stating facts, the comments made were completely false, were done in a malicious manner, and the admin took very swift & correct action, which was to remove those comments, and warn the poster about future comments such as the ones that were being removed. That person later posted a public apology to me after realizing that what he had done could have cost him dearly.

I think that some people forget that the admin of this site work on a VOLUNTEER basis, have real lives, family, and jobs, and if they choose to implement a feature that can reduce the amount of time that they have to spend babysitting certain members (there are almost 3,000 members on this forum!), then that is certainly their prerogative.

[Kronosdelsol]

Quite frankly the curbing of spouting is one of the reasons I spend so much time on this forum rather than forums where "people in the know" bash unchecked and at will. There are lots of forums out there that allow and seemingly encourage that if that is your choice, but I would prefer this board remain free of such things.

I agree, one million percent! That is why I hang out here too.

Guess what I'm eating this weekend. KFC....

Ohhh....do I ever regret that decision...... -roll-

Edited May 4, 2010 by Kronosdelsol