SA for 55

[Cap'n]

Been thinking about getting a couple South Americans for my 55. I found Thorichthys aureus seemed to fit the bill perfectly. Any comments or suggestions about this fish? Including availability, cost and tankmates?

[Nandopsis]

Well i believe they are a Central American not South.

And

I can't ever remember seeing these in any stores localy, but i was never realy looking for them either.

So i can't comment on price or availability.

My guess if you could find some would be in the $10-$12 range.

Tank mates would be the same as a firemouth.

They are not realy aggresive so anything that won't fit in their mouths should be OK.

Though putting a more than one male or a similar species like a firemouth in with them would probably increase the problems.

[johnsmith]

I'm pretty sure I've seen them at Franco's but that was a while ago and they were albinos. As for price, I don't remember, maybe if you're lucky they'll still be 30% off -roll-

[canucklehead]

For South Americans Pisces has GYmnogeophagus labiatus, a smaller very unique earth eater with awesome colour as adults, I think they may ne on sale as well

[Cap'n]

Smaller does not interest me right now. I am considering switching my Tanganyikan tank for American. The kid(s, soon to be plural) show more of an interest for the larger fish, and since that's where the FW tank is, that's good enough of an excuse for new fish!

Unfortunately, I'll have to get rid of the Tangs. But, that's really the only kind of FW fish I've had in years so it may be time for a change.

[Cap'n]

So I have decided on severums. Start with a half dozen and keep a pair.

For tankmates I would like to have silver dollars but I'm concerned about them eating my plants. I don't have anything fancy growing in the tank, basically just jungle val, but without it the tank would look barren.

And I was going to get some loaches for bottom dwellers, but I'm a stickler for details so want something South American instead, probably cory-cats.

Since this is my first SA tank I would love some comments and suggestions.

[Ichthyosporidium]

I would suggest to run some aquarim grade peatmoss in your filter, if possible. Perhaps add some drift wood or mopani. If you use driftwood and / or mopani wood, I would then suggest to lightly leach and waterlog the wood proir to placing in the aquarium. The water will be stained a shade of brown from tannic and hummic acids that leach out from the wood and peat moss, But carbon filtration and regular water changes will clear that up over time. The benifit is that the tannic and hummic acids soften and acidify the water which is very favorable for S/A inhabitants.

The Vallisneria is a good choice, perhaps some Swords, Cryptcorynes, A clump of Hygrophyllia is a good sacrifical plant to use if you get any vegetarians as it doesn't mind being grazed upon. Planted Hornwort is a good type of plant that provides cover and food for many fry. fine gravel and/or sand substrate is what I use in South American tanks that I setup.

Edited August 25, 2006 by Ichthyosporidium

[Melody]

I have found that Java Fern and Anubias work very well with vegie-loving fish. The former doesn't taste good and the latter is too thick - they didn't tell me that but its as logical a reason as any...lol. In a Cichlid tank they do well as it can be tied rather than planted so you don't have uprooting issues. Have fun planning the new occupants!

[jvision]

Sevrums will pick at any plant... Mine have chewed nice sized holes in Swords, Lotus, Val, and yes... Java fern & Anubias! I don' t think they've actually eaten any, they just like to chew. The Silver Dollars, on the other hand - they'll eat just about anything.

As much as it kills me to say it, go with plastic or silk plants in this tank.

Edited August 25, 2006 by jvision

[Melody]

Sevrums will pick at any plant... Mine have chewed nice sized holes in Swords, Lotus, Val, and yes... Java fern & Anubias! I don' t think they've actually eaten any, they just like to chew. The Silver Dollars, on the other hand - they'll eat just about anything.

Really? Maybe I feed my fish too many vegies so its a preference thing... and they're smallish as a rule. I only had Anubias and Java Moss in with the monstor Silver Dollars that I fish-sat for two months without a prob, but seeing how they ripped into fresh Romaine Lettuce & other vegies, I can see your point. If the Severums seem to do it for the sheer helluvit, then increasing the fresh vegies in the diet won't help by the sounds of things. If you have vegie lovers by nature, I find they'll prefer the tasty vegies we eat over all but the most yummy aquarium plants (like Watersprite). If something is eating a bitter ol' plant like Java Fern, I take it as a craving . The Lab had Java Fern & Anubias in the tank and didn't bother with it - she likes peas .

I'll leave it to you Cichlid experts though :bow: , having no experience with the specific ones mentioned myself.

[Ichthyosporidium]

"Get them young enough and the possibilities are endless." The Jesuits are to thank for that saying. Basicaly, if you want live plants with severe herbivores I suggest to start them out young and have the tank planted and the plants well established. Offer them veggies. Romaine, red leaf, spinach, greens of all sorts. Ifound that nuking a lettuce leaf for three seconds breaks down the cellulose to make what you are offering more accepted. Ofcourse, there is the mess from doing that and possible pollution problems if you are not careful. It is alot more work with live plants then it is with silk ones. That choice is up to you to make. Being that you are relatively new in freshwater and have two kids, the silk plants might be the more practical choice.

[Melody]

"Get them young enough and the possibilities are endless." The Jesuits are to thank for that saying. Basicaly, if you want live plants with severe herbivores I suggest to start them out young and have the tank planted and the plants well established. Offer them veggies. Romaine, red leaf, spinach, greens of all sorts. Ifound that nuking a lettuce leaf for three seconds breaks down the cellulose to make what you are offering more accepted. Ofcourse, there is the mess from doing that and possible pollution problems if you are not careful. It is alot more work with live plants then it is with silk ones. That choice is up to you to make. Being that you are relatively new in freshwater and have two kids, the silk plants might be the more practical choice.

Freezing them will soften them too - I do both for the non-plant-eating snails. Watch the amount of the vegies high in oxalic acid, such as Spinach.

I have never had polution problems, but I do make sure they're removed within 24-48 hours, depending on the vegie. Granted, I have a LOT of vegie-lovers so its almost always eaten right away. Kale is supposed to be horrible for the smell alone, and anything high in phosphates should be avoided.

Those plant clips are awesome - I have at least one in every tank, Nemo ones even .

[RD.]

Some good advice, but no matter what you do it's still a toss of the coin whether you'll have a severum that decides to take a fancy to destroying plants, or not. The reality is that most will. It becomes a case of individual personalities, not one of missing nutrients, or hunger. I've seen fish classified as omnivores (such as severum) strip a tank of algae more efficiently than a BN pleco, and fish classified as carnivores (such as a N. venustus) mow down fully mature vals like there was no tomorrow.

You can fight the battle all you want, but in some cases there's simply no winning the war. Also, adding fresh greens will indeed add to the overall pollution in your tank. Fresh greens, as well as most plant matter, contain large amounts of indigestible matter such as cellulose, and are not digested by fish very well. (think fiber) Much of what goes in, comes right back out the other end. Not to mention the added waste that you don't see, as in what's passed via their gills, and urine, and the smaller uneaten portions that end up in your filters. Not a problem with most of the smaller species when using greens as a supplement, but sev's have a very healthy appetite, and can create massive amounts of waste (especially in a 55 gallon) when they start to get some size to them.

[Cap'n]

I would suggest to run some aquarim grade peatmoss in your filter, if possible. Perhaps add some drift wood or mopani. If you use driftwood and / or mopani wood, I would then suggest to lightly leach and waterlog the wood proir to placing in the aquarium. The water will be stained a shade of brown from tannic and hummic acids that leach out from the wood and peat moss, But carbon filtration and regular water changes will clear that up over time. The benifit is that the tannic and hummic acids soften and acidify the water which is very favorable for S/A inhabitants.

The Vallisneria is a good choice, perhaps some Swords, Cryptcorynes, A clump of Hygrophyllia is a good sacrifical plant to use if you get any vegetarians as it doesn't mind being grazed upon. Planted Hornwort is a good type of plant that provides cover and food for many fry. fine gravel and/or sand substrate is what I use in South American tanks that I setup.

Mopani is already in the tank and I will be replacing most of the shale with a couple good sized pieces of driftwood which is on its way here. Iwas wondering how to easily soften the water, will peat be enough?

Lots of val and sand base already in the tank.

Sevrums will pick at any plant... Mine have chewed nice sized holes in Swords, Lotus, Val, and yes... Java fern & Anubias! I don' t think they've actually eaten any, they just like to chew. The Silver Dollars, on the other hand - they'll eat just about anything.

As much as it kills me to say it, go with plastic or silk plants in this tank.

If the severums "pick" at the val, I can handle it. But i am worried about silver dollars leaving me with a bleached version of the Amazon. And I hate fake, you can always tell. Any suggestions for good, hardy, plant-friendly, schooling tankmates for full grown sevs? Still at a loss for bottom feeders as well. Anything more interesting than cories? I miss my synos already...

Being that you are relatively new in freshwater and have two kids, the silk plants might be the more practical choice.

I spend more time pruning the jungle val in the tank than trying to grow it, so that definitely isn't a time issue, and I figure this would be about year 26 with at least one FW tank, when do I become "experienced"?

Also, adding fresh greens will indeed add to the overall pollution in your tank.

I won't be feeding this tank anything except NLS pellets and the occasional mysis treat.

Edited August 26, 2006 by Cap'n

[RD.]

Have you considered a group of Pimelodus pictus (Pictus catfish) as bottom feeders?

As far as schooling fish, perhaps a decent sized group of Hatchet fish. I've never kept them with severum, so perhaps others with more experience with that species could offer their opinion.