Goldfish Girl

a twenty gallon tank is pretty small for most cichlids. you might want to look at shell dwellers, neolamprologus ocellatus, to name one. even though they average out at about two inches, they have enough attitude to keep anyone entertained. you get anywhere within their shell when you are cleaning and they will keep on biting you until you leave. it doesn't matter to them your hand is countless times bigger. if you don't nessesarily want africans try rams or the genus apistogramma, "apistos" as they are called in the hobby. most will be suitable for a twenty gallon tank.

i have kept one before. kept it with my zebra plecos. lets just say check if they are alive OFTEN. and by often i mean every time you look in the tank. one day if you check the tank and notice the zebra plecs loosing all their color, move them out to another tank, then go to move the flounder from out of the sand and discover he is dead, there is nothing worse then dead flounder for smell. only things that can maybe compete are dead sea anenomes and rotting onion plants. the fishroom smelled like dead fish for days. zebra plecos survived though. as for their care, they don't really need any salt in the water. i kept mine full fresh no problem. they will eat what ever fits in their mouths, they are predatory. interesting to watch though. its about the closest you can get to a stingray without accutually buying one. stingrays are still better but their temperment is the same. another name for the freshwater flounder is river sole. difference between sole and flounder is the side their mouths are on. think of it as one looks to the left and one looks to the right. lol. awesome fish though... as long as they don't die. but they need SAND. can't stress that enough. they scrape on rocks and ussually get stressed from not being able to hide.

i would keep my big koi Moby (Dick). he has so much personality and will let you pet him even when you have no food. right now his favourite behavior is putting his head in the PVC tube my jack dempsey lives in and swimming around the tub with him. poor cichlid is probably scared to death. funny thing is i was worried about him killing the koi when i first put him in.

only word for that is WOW

yess it is true. they are not another betta species however. they are mearly betta splendens but the breeder choose all the extremely large ones and breeds them together. big al's edmonton sells them for $30.

I've been struggling with a way to say this that doesn't make me sound like a jerk but I gave up. I know the sites you are referring to and who wrote them, they're wrong. If you think about it the assertion is absurd, who runs around the wild trimming puffer beaks? Diet is a much better solution to this issue, if you take a proactive approach to this you will find you never need to trim teeth manually. Modestus are not very widely kept but many people have kept South American puffers (including me) for long periods without having to resort to manual dentistry and they are just as bad if not worse with the overgrowth problems. If you get a good growth out of your fahaka you will be looking at a tank in the 100 gal range, preferably something with 2 feet of width to it. A 4ft x 2 ft 120 is perfect. no one runs around in the wild trimming puffer beaks because they have acess to different foods in the wild. if i could provide them with an endless diet of snails i would. but that just isn't possible. no matter how fast you breed snails there is no way to keep up with them. unless you have 10 tanks devoted to snails, which is not happening in my fishroom. so i guess in the sites they are saying that if your not priveldged to own an infinate number of snails, you have to do it manually. "for long periods without having to resort to manual dentistry and they are just as bad if not worse with the overgrowth problems." don't really understand what you mean there. i was just wondering what size of tank for a younger fahaka. i'm aware about her adult size and tank needs.

lol. the minute i do salt water i'll be kicked out of the house. just curious as there seems to be alot of mantis fanatics on here, who has the most mantis's? how many? lol. maybe that will make me feel better about the number of koi i now have.

i've thought about that before. the only thing is have you ever had a problem with them clamping onto the puffers? i've had a four inch one hanging off my hand before, not as bad as you would think. just for a puffer their skin is so delicate. or do you only feed babies? also what is the process involved in that, is it just kind of sit back and let them breed or any work involved.

hi all just an update. i did find a tub for them at innovativve plastics in edmonton on yellowhead trail. its a five foot by five foot tub, 130 gallons. it seems small as far as gallons but theres tons of surface area. thats what i was looking for. right now i just have my fancies in it. they will come out when i get my seventy five gallon one of these weekends. the pond fish can tough it out until then. brought in the baby koi today though. can't wait to see what they'll look like when they are older.

yess i'd agree with you on that. it probably was very stressful but it was less stressful on me knowing that they were alive the whole time at least. they are zipping around the tank still. i'm going to force feed them mysis tomorrow or see if they'll take it themselves. i doubt it though. anyway, i'm going to get a population of ghost shrimp going soon. i tryed snails but they didn't seem to work for me.

you can get species groups of dwarf cichlids at auctions for wayyyyyyy cheaper then in stores. check out the aquarium clubs websites for dates.

"I didn't make a comment earlier as I have never had to trim a puffer's beak myself and if you give them the correct diet you never should have to either" acctually midgetwaiter A. modestus's teeth are an extremely fast growing as far as puffers go. i read on serveral sites that they need trimming at least twice a year, no matter what you feed them. thanks for the other info. i'm glad about the freshwater fact. i'd been getting alittle of both on the internet, some saying that they were pure freshwater and others saying that i would have to move it. gotta love the internet. thats why you never just read one article. i think i am going to invest in a dremel tool for the fahaka. just in case. it'd be good to have one when she gets big. does anyone else keep this fish? what size of tank do you have her in? mine doesn't really do anything. just sits in her cave and looks around. that is not counting her nightly trying to break the glass session. mines about 8 inches from head to tail. going to cut some more teeth. this really makes me not want to be a dentist. suprisingly though, the teeth are really brittle.

thats makes me want to do salt water. mantis shrimp are one of the coolest creatures on earth in my opinion. reading about their eyes and different wavelengths and such is really fasinating. the emerald crab video is a bit gruesome, i think its the music, but over all they are cool. i've had the privaledge of seeing one work at a turbo snail for an entire day. the shell after was pretty cool to see. hard to imagine without seeing it first hand what these creatures are capable of.

puffer update. i tried one with the clove oil, he kinda swam around for about 4 minutes (not normal swimming) , the website said they would be down within one. i freaked out and decided to put him into the container with no clove oil. after about 2 minutes in that, he started looking a little better so i decided, against advice, to clip the teeth without putting the fish out. worked okay, did suck in some air but i massaged the belly and held him upright and he spat it all out. on puffer #2 i did not use the clove oil. i just clipped them with him out of the water. almost got bit a few times but nothing major. only problem was the puffers kept biting down on the cuticle clippers. made it difficult not to cut off their mouths but i managed. whole process took about half an hour and i am going to go for round two tonight. still need a little bit of trimming. wanted to let them calm down. i didn't want to cut them too short but now i realized that i can use the one healthy puffer as a model. i guess i'm going to have to look forward to this every six months because A. modetus's teeth grow that fast. thanks for evryone's help. i am going to pick up a load of shell fish tomorrow for all my puffers. i sure don't want to do this to my fahaka. couldn't stand to loose her--or one of my fingers for that matter. another question though, last time i bought my puffer a clam she didn't want anything to do with it. is this because i have to open it? also, fahaka puffers can live is freshwater their whole lives right? or do they need salt water as they get older? thanks to all.

okay. those articles were great. i don't want to euthenise my fish--seems scary. i am going to try and cut them off. hopfully they don't suck in too much air but i might try to do this underwater. i'll keep you guys posted. i feel sorry for the one who has to go first. ouch.

two of my three avocado puffers teeth have grown so long that they can no longer eat. :cry: does anyone know the correct way to file them down? i haven't managed to find anything on the internet yet. they are about two inches, maybe a little smaller. really skinny. i don't want these two to die because they aren't that easy to find and replace. only time i saw them in a store was when i bought them. also, does anyone know why this happened? i feed them and my fahaka puffer the same things (white shrimp) and the fahaka's teeth are fine. i know you can feed them snails to keep their teeth in check but right now they can't open their mouths enough to attempt to eat the snails. thanks. i guess its better i learned my lesson with these poor guys then the fahaka. wouldn't want to put my fingers anywhere near that mouth.

depending on how big your tank is, plecos work well. if its a tank under 75 gallons you may want to look at a bristlenose pleco. they do a better job on algae then the regular ones and only grow about 6 inches max. where as the regular ones get 12" or larger. i'd say they would work better in the s/a tank as long as you don't have anything too crazy in there. in both cases, lots of hiding places would be great. plecos are generally nocturnal, as they get more comfortable in your tank they start coming out. the cichlids may pick on the pleco, but in most cases it works out.

heyy your tanks are definately not overstocked. you could add more fish if you wanted, you aren't anywhere near being overstocked. this also depends on how often you do water changes. personally i like less fish. my tanks are all understocked and overfiltered and that way i can postpone water changes for a few days if something comes up. having plants really helps too. there isn't really a specific guide on how to stock your tank. you may have heard the "one inch of fish per gallon" rule. this is not a great way to judge the stocking of your tank despite what the books will say. think of it this way, according to that rule a 10 inch fish would be able to live in a 10 gallon. thats a 10 inch fish in a 12 inch tank. he wouldn't be able to turn around. meanwhile 10 cardinals/guppies/other 1 inch fish, in a 10 gallon might look bare. ussually you can do about 15 small fish in a 10 gallon, assuming your doing regular water changes. the type of fish also matters. goldfish for example, seem to be able to create more waste then what you acctually feed them. 2 pellets in, and the next day it seems like you fed more like 20. smaller fish ted to create less waste. as valerie pointed out your tanks do sound really nice. i had to give up my planted tank a while back, jealous of everyone else who has them now. (i got bit by the cichlid bug). now i have a planted cichlid tank *gasp*. but it can be done. angelfish would look cool in the 18 gallon tall tank. their fins grow nice when they have the room. you only really want one tho, or you'll end up with world war three in your tank. (unless they are a pair, safest route for small tanks is just one)

probably in the top 5 of nicest tanks i have ever seen is my friends 150 gallon of all male, all wildcaught rainbowfish. sadly all the fish were sold awhile ago but man was it a beautiful tank. rainbow fish are fairly easy to keep. they can bother other fish because they are fast swimmers but with what you have in there it shouldn't matter. they do better with live plants too. you get better color. like current. like the tops of tanks. EDIT: you said you wanted a pair, does this mean M/F? male rainbow fish are the ones with serious color. unlike peacocks you can keep two males without losing the color on one. EDIT #2: i just saw you said rainbow CICHLIDS. well its late, my brain isn't in full school mode yet. lol. but rainbow fish would be nice too!

GREAT PICTURE OF MY PUFFER! wow i was surprised to see her on here. its great when other people take beautiful pictures of your fish. thank you!

i have an idea that will let people give their opinions, without being able to badmouth stores. i'm reading what very good points alot of you are making on both sides of this argument and thought of a compromise. what if there were some type of a guideline, like a checklist, on what you could rate stores on. there could be categories for example, quality of fish, variaty of fish, health of fish, knowledge of staff, cleanliness of store. just to suggest a few. have a rating system, example, 1 being worst 5 being outstanding. people could copy and paste the list of categories from somewhere, maybe a "pinned" post, and then fill them in as they see fit. this does not enable people to badmouth stores, but still lets opinions be heard. any posts that have anything besides this checklist, should be taken off. let people know this very clearly a head of time so it will be expected. for those in favour of the vendor review, while this solution may not enable you to express yourself as much as you would like (you can't tell the huge story about how bad the fish lookeed, how roughly they were caught, blah blah), you still get your opinions voiced. for those not in favour of the vendor review, the stores are not being slandered and no huge stories are being told/exaggerated/made up about stores. this is a more tasteful way of letting opinions be heard--without all politics involved. a good compromise leaves everyone angry. lol, forget who said that. if this has been suggested before and didn't work, disregard this. i just thought maybe this could be considered.

hi i like many others have kept discus in straight edmonton tap water. they survived. as long as you don't treat discus as a fish that is going to drop dead if you look at them wrong, you shouldn't have any problems. clean water is crucial though, as many have pointed out before. you may have more of a problem with wild caught fish, and be sure to quarentine and acclamatise slowly. there are a few dicus breeders in the fish club, i don't want to name names or they will recieve a million phone calls from all you wanting discus for a cheaper price. but, join the club, attend a meeting, talk to them in person and see what they can do for you. joining the club also has another perk of getting discounts at BA's for one, not sure if any other stores do, they might. another way to get nice discus at a very low price are auctions. in edmonton, i think they ussually have around 4 to 6 bags of discus every auction. maybe not alot to choose from, but at the price you'll be paying you won't care. ussually just blue diamonds, red turqs, common variaties. i hope the discus go well. they are tougher then the books like to point out.

BA's edm had some. they ran around $ 25.

if your just starting, flourite (basically a gravel with built in fertilizer made by seachem) is a great product to buy. i put a few bags of it under the pea gravel, that way it doesn't stain the water. it works like a charm. lasts for at least a few years and doesn't promote the algae growth as much as regular liquid fertilizers. trust me, this will be your new favourite product. i got a crinium natans and a madacasgar lace to flower using it and nothing else. no special plant lights, no CO2, nothing. as far as heater and filter, anything you would use for fish works. you can get away with less if your doing just all plants, or only 3 or 4 fish. as far as plants, stay away from most red plants (example: rotala), they tend to be harder and need a a higher spectrum of lighting. hygrophelia is a great plant to start with. same with the java ferns. only downside is java ferns are slower growers. common swordplants are ussually okay. valisneria is good, you have to trim it every so often. another more exotic looking species is the lotus. lotus', a plant that will look like a water lily, are easy to grow. the only problem you will have is when you first buy them, they will grow straight up to the surface. cut the leaves that grow to high, they will shade your other plants, and eventually the plant will grow out instead of up. also, another way to make lotus' even easier to keep, is to plant them in a container. this way, you can do all the gravel cleans you like, and the lotus will never be bothered. you can use the container method for most plants, just make sure the container is large enough. if you put flourite in the container, that is the best way to go. most plant species available locally are ussually okay. just because someone says not to try something, if you really like it, give it a shot. when you start off with plants there is alot of trial and error. thats why there are so many people on this site willing to help you start off with freebies. hope your tank goes well. plants are the best.

thanks everyone. i know that they would be fine outdoors, just they are fun to look at. i think i will look on bargain finder and look into a farm tub. i also got an offer from someone for a 220 gallon tub. thanks all