EVERYONE READ!!

[Parachromis1]

Hi,

I found this while doing some research, trying to find the best combo to kill/thwart gram- and gram+ bacterias. I found this article here:

Quite the read, and it may shock some of you. I found it a slap in the face, as API is HUGE in the fish world. Shows what companies are doing though.

MelaFix and PimaFix info

Quinn.

EDIT: Can Mods move to my journal?

Thanks.

Edited January 10, 2009 by pimpdocta

[firestorm]

I've already read this before, stumbled across it when I was reading up on the products. It is a very interesting article, but it's pretty sad how dumb these guys are.

[Parachromis1]

I've already read this before, stumbled across it when I was reading up on the products. It is a very interesting article, but it's pretty sad how dumb these guys are.

It's not about being dumb, its about saving money. They pay scientists MAD dollars a year to test for such things, and if the company were to test for every single water born Bacteria, they would simply go bankrupt. It's quite simple. I just want to warn people about such things. Things like Metronidazole are meant to target one thing, Hexamita. Drugs or wide spectrum antibiotics like Melafix work well in some situations and not so well in others. Its hard to find ONE product, especially if its natural to kill many many bacterias and viruses.

[gobies et al]

[quote name=pimpdocta' date='Jan 9 2009, 08:40 PM' post='2175466

It's not about being dumb, its about saving money. They pay scientists MAD dollars a year to test for such things, and if the company were to test for every single water born Bacteria, they would simply go bankrupt. It's quite simple. I just want to warn people about such things. Things like Metronidazole are meant to target one thing, Hexamita. Drugs or wide spectrum antibiotics like Melafix work well in some situations and not so well in others. Its hard to find ONE product, especially if its natural to kill many many bacterias and viruses.

For further reading check this thread: http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=354

I also won't use Melafix or Pimafix. I will use antibiotics specifically for the bacteria targeted.

The impression I got was Melafix is a very narrow spectrum and may be ineffective or worse.

[Lana Bollers]

What if you are unsure what you are dealing with???

[fatpuffer]

I have success using melafix for minor scrapes and fin damage...not for bacterial infection. I also have successfully used pimafix for fungal infection in puffers.

Js

[Parachromis1]

What if you are unsure what you are dealing with???

I wouldn't use it then, my solution for EVERYTHING that has to do with damage/disease=more waterchanges and salt, and possibly bump up the temp.

I have success using melafix for minor scrapes and fin damage...not for bacterial infection. I also have successfully used pimafix for fungal infection in puffers.

Js

Like stated its hit and miss. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the Melafix and Pimafix works better on Puffers perhaps? could be that they don't have scale correct? Or it could've played a trick on you, and appeared to work, but it was just good water chemistry healing your fish.

I am also trying to dig deeper into the matter, with more then API products though. I'm sure there are many products on the market that most likely have the same factors as these two products. I also think that a bunch of controlled experiments would also determine whether or not these products are truly viable to use in our home aquariums, 9/10 times.

[Erin]

THANK you.... as a person that sells these products I'm happy to read this. I can now safe sell products properly. I personally only use melafix for damaged fins and what not because I find it helps with heal (must be the aloe) but I uaually never use it for much more then that and I never sell if for anything more then that. Thanks again.

[RD.]

I read the info in that link a couple of yrs back, and shrugged it off as most of it should fall under the category of being a "no brainer". I got a kick out of Lee's comment in that thread, where it was stated

As usual, anecdotal information may not be something we want to base a judgment upon on whether or not to use or not use a product.

.......... yet Steven Pro (another poster in that discussion) has written entire articles based on pretty much just that, and much of what he stated has later proven to be incorrect.

Gotta luv the internet, where overnight experts abound .......

I'll preface my following comments by stating up front that IMO a daily water change with added salt will 'cure' as many problems as Melafix or Pimafix, at a tiny fraction of the cost. I've used both products in the past, but found large daily water changes, some salt, and increased temps to be just as effective.

Having said that, I don't believe that API has ever suggested that either one of those products are a cure all remedy for all gram positive and/or gram negative bacteria. They are marketed as a more natural & safer way to treat fish with non life threatening issues, vs using harsh meds for problems where in many cases the hobbyist isn't even certain exactly what they are treating for. More of my thoughts regarding Melafix are posted in the link from a few yrs back that gobies et al posted.

Things like Metronidazole are meant to target one thing, Hexamita.

Not to split hairs, but Met it is used in the aquatic world to treat internal parasitic flagellates, not just specifically those that cause Hexamita. There are a wide variety of known flagellated protozoans found in the gastrointestinal tracts of a wide variety of fishes, one of the more common is Spironucleus vortens.

IME one of the best broad-spectrum antibiotic treatments is a combination of Maracyn & Maracyn2, which will target both gram positive, and gram negative bacteria.

[fatpuffer]

In my experience (mostly puffers but also some live bearers) that pimafix works great with fungal infection.

Js

[Parachromis1]

I read the info in that link a couple of yrs back, and shrugged it off as most of it should fall under the category of being a "no brainer". I got a kick out of Lee's comment in that thread, where it was stated

As usual, anecdotal information may not be something we want to base a judgment upon on whether or not to use or not use a product.

.......... yet Steven Pro (another poster in that discussion) has written entire articles based on pretty much just that, and much of what he stated has later proven to be incorrect.

Gotta luv the internet, where overnight experts abound .......

I'll preface my following comments by stating up front that IMO a daily water change with added salt will 'cure' as many problems as Melafix or Pimafix, at a tiny fraction of the cost. I've used both products in the past, but found large daily water changes, some salt, and increased temps to be just as effective.

Having said that, I don't believe that API has ever suggested that either one of those products are a cure all remedy for all gram positive and/or gram negative bacteria. They are marketed as a more natural & safer way to treat fish with non life threatening issues, vs using harsh meds for problems where in many cases the hobbyist isn't even certain exactly what they are treating for. More of my thoughts regarding Melafix are posted in the link from a few yrs back that gobies et al posted.

Things like Metronidazole are meant to target one thing, Hexamita.

Not to split hairs, but Met it is used in the aquatic world to treat internal parasitic flagellates, not just specifically those that cause Hexamita. There are a wide variety of known flagellated protozoans found in the gastrointestinal tracts of a wide variety of fishes, one of the more common is Spironucleus vortens.

IME one of the best broad-spectrum antibiotic treatments is a combination of Maracyn & Maracyn2, which will target both gram positive, and gram negative bacteria.

I was waiting anxiously for your reply Neil, and a good one it is. I totally do agree with everything you said, and after reading + reading some more for the past 2.5 hours, it all does add up and make sense.

I believe the way drugs such as Melafix and Pimafix are marketed by mouth are simply "overrated". Some may agree/disagree with me on this fact, but it is sadly true in my opinion. I agree water changes and salt are your best friend when it comes to keeping all of our aquatic friends happy + healthy.

I did read that first article, and did a follow up on Steven Pro's articles, and a lot of what he has written, or posted in many forums have been found to contradict one another, so therefore much of his information in his studies must be incorrect, or inconclusive because of solid evidence.

We could most likely get much much deeper into this discussion, but I would like to rest my case at this: "Melafix and Pimafix are not a one cure all medicinal formula, they are simply for a hobbyist to use when the diagnosis is non life threatening, and should not be used when the diagnosis is uncertain".

Thats my 2 cents.

All in all, more water changes!

[RD.]

I keep 3 meds on hand for emergency situations, and/or newly purchased fish that are going into quarantine, and very rarely have to use any of them.

1. Jungle Tank Buddies Parasite Clear

2. Seachem ParaGuard

3. Coppersafe

[Parachromis1]

I keep Maracyn and Maracyn2 on hand usually, as well as ParaGuard. I usually have a bottle of Metronidazole kicking around too.

[Ishkabod]

I just successfully used Bettafix (more diluted then melafix) to heal the female betta in her tank. I wanted to see if it worked or if it was just a useless expense. For a few days after the deep scratch on her side the wound was getting worse so when i found my bettafix i added it and now a week later it's actually nearly gone. I used much less than recommended and not daily but if anything the wound would have continued to get worse if i had not added bettafix so in this case it worked like a charm. I've never heard of it being used for bacteria infections and only considered it a it can't hurt to try remedy. Especially since i'm so new to fish that sick fish are not something i have had to deal with enough to know what to do all the time.

I think it's a great idea if your fish is at a stage where you think one of your fish MIGHT be sick. It won't hurt the fish or the bacteria in the filter so it's a good first line of defence a sort of just in case and maybe it'll work remedy. The other thing is the wound healing ability. If anything it can't hurt to use it for that and it sure seems to help allot. Of course use water changes salt and heat to get rid of things too but it's an added security blanket that some of us like. I like melafix PLUS IT SMELLS SOOOO NICE.

Anyway thanks for the article it might help me in the future if i get cloudy water while treating with melafix

Thanks again

L

[Boom]

A good article, but I find it neither surprising nor dissapointing in any way to me. I use both products and have had success with both on several occasions. Other times, not so much. If I find it didn't work, then maybe I try something else, maybe I let nature take it's coarse.

If anyone actually thought that either product was some super be all - end all cure, you need to give your head a shake. And maybe read the bottle, they make no such claims.

A question though. Is API doing anything to find out what bacteria it does and doesn't work against, so they can maybe improve the product to work effectively against a wider range of bacteria? From the article, it doesn't sound like they are. If not, shouldn't they be? I understand the cost for doing such research are likely huge. But I would think that the benefits of being able to say "Melafix works against xx% of common aquarium bacteria" would be huge as well.

Just my 2 bits. I will still use the products.

Boom :boom: