I don't like the Vendor Review Survey

[JLake]

Yeah im not concerned about being sued ever. I dont want to cyber argue. Youe experience with law is with books, I have dealt with the law for many years on both sides of the tables. Im uninterested. If you noticed i never said the name of the company bc i said "assume". So thanks for the faux legal advice.

[T Dawg]

...I dont want to cyber argue...

Then let's keep this as that type of forum!

[T Dawg]

...about their vendors...

I think you are missing that this policy applies to all vendors, sponsor or not. The only protection offered is to the spirit of the forum, not the vendor.

[Ace22]

There are so many places to get advice and do research that the last place I would personally try is Joe Blow at the LFS. Any LFS can have problems with parisites and diseases none are immune. Even when quarentine and meds are used problems surface from time to time. I am a member of many different forums and some spend way too much time bashing. I like this site I feel like I am in peaceful waters here. :smokey:

[Jayba]

We all are here for a common goal people, to share knowledge and interact with others that are either more experienced than ourselves or to help those who are not. Enjoy this hobby, sickness, addiction or however you wish to label it.

From a legal point of view AA could have problems if store "x" was upset that they are being slagged on a service that has access to thousands of potential customers, this is the problem, if you wish to bash a store by word of mouth....well knock yourself out. This is not the proper avenue for a persons personal opinions and experiences in a negative manor. If you want to PM a whack of people to b*tch about a store, go for it, but I feel there are better things to do with your spare time....

I in the past have had a bout of disease that wiped out a ton of my fish, this was a very reputable store and the fact of the matter was when I left the store they looked great. There are allot of shoulda coulda woulda's that come up in hind site, maybe slower stock additions, better quarantined tank times. Who knows. It is what it is. Lesson learned.

Most of us didn't wake up fish savvy. It is a long painful learning process that takes years. It's just too bad that our lessons are learned at the expense of beautiful little critters that we think we can lock in a glass box and have them flourish.

We should always assume fish have some sort of disease and that the stress of being bagged and moved will kick it off.

The owners of these great little stores do their very best to supply us with a good product, but the nature of the beast is that they need to move inventory. They cannot quarantine fish for 16 plus weeks to be sure there is no underlying conditions, they would need huge spaces and this overhead would add to the bottom line. So unless you would like to pay 93 bucks for a guppy accept the process with it's flaws, and get a damned quarantine tank

Edited May 11, 2010 by Jayba

[RDFISHGUY]

We all are here for a common goal people, to share knowledge and interact with others that are either more experienced than ourselves or to help those who are not. Enjoy this hobby, sickness, addiction or however you wish to label it.

From a legal point of view AA could have problems if store "x" was upset that they are being slagged on a service that has access to thousands of potential customers, this is the problem, if you wish to bash a store by word of mouth....well knock yourself out. This is not the proper avenue for a persons personal opinions and experiences in a negative manor. If you want to PM a whack of people to b*tch about a store, go for it, but I feel there are better things to do with your spare time....

I in the past have had a bout of disease that wiped out a ton of my fish, this was a very reputable store and the fact of the matter was when I left the store they looked great. There are allot of shoulda coulda woulda's that come up in hind site, maybe slower stock additions, better quarantined tank times. Who knows. It is what it is. Lesson learned.

Most of us didn't wake up fish savvy. It is a long painful learning process that takes years. It's just too bad that our lessons are learned at the expense of beautiful little critters that we think we can lock in a glass box and have them flourish.

We should always assume fish have some sort of disease and that the stress of being bagged and moved will kick it off.

The owners of these great little stores do their very best to supply us with a good product, but the nature of the beast is that they need to move inventory. They cannot quarantine fish for 16 plus weeks to be sure there is no underlying conditions, they would need huge spaces and this overhead would add to the bottom line. So unless you would like to pay 93 bucks for a guppy accept the process with it's flaws, and get a damned quarantine tank

The stores should recommend a quarantine tank to start with, then they can make even more money! It's just sound advice. Take it or leave it.I know I'd be pissed if I added a $30 clown loach to my arowana tank and ended up losing a $2500 arowana because I was too cheap to buy a quarantine tank.

One day I will get one. One day I will learn. I think its a "must have" no matter where you live.

The more you get into this hobby ,and the more you invest in it, the more you have to lose, and the more important it becomes.

[JLake]

agreed, my old motto of one more fish wont hurt is no more. Stock it once and right and u lower your odds of picking up something unwanted

[Baos]

Technically isn't my good opinion of Canadian aquatics a vendor review? It took place.. It's posted.. Sometimes it's enforced and sometimes it's not. I think we can all agree the system needs some work.

[Ishkabod]

This really has opened up my eyes and experiences with one store that really..... anyway This sites policy and the wonderful admins have helped me kick the bad habit of complaining about many things. Now if you want to warn someone about a store or have concerns maybe we could have someone appointed so that trusted long time members can report bad or good expereinces with stores and vendors, and that person can compile that info with an easy point system and if there are any immediate problems or things like one vendor having issues with huge die offs on arrival then members could ask that person to be sure that the place they are buying from doesn't have any huge concerns to worry about at that time. Now about QT tanks... sometimes no matter how long you QT you might miss something. Occasionally a warning about an outbreak of something in a particular store to alert people of the need to QT fish from that store or vendor or type of fish if they use a system that has water that doesn't go from tank to tank. and if people have picked up something then they can take the appropriate measures to be sure that if they have it, that it's treated with the proper meds and in the proper way and if they aren't sure then they know what to look for and can report a change in the status of the outbreak in that store or tank. Now legaly speaking I don't see how posting a careful warning worded right and is factual with a follow up of helpful information is wrong. here is what i think could be something we could use...

Illness Alert

Date discoverd May 1st 4022

Date purchaced May 1st 4022

QT Yes

Species affected clown crab shells

Possible Disease purple shell heart fungus

Symptoms purple fungus grows in heart shapes on the inside of the shell and the claws incessently try to scratch the heart in half

Treatment used Took a purple marker and fill in the heart

Results- Little clown crab shell baby makeing

Now if you noticed i didn't include the store/vendor and used completely bogus 1am creative BS for the facts but the structure and the wording should be okay. I think it might be possible to include that if the fish developed something in QT. If worded right it could warn people that there may be a problem to watch for but not to worry too much if you QT and it provides symptoms to watch for and treatment.

Is there a way to have a happy medium between warning and having no warning and make it legal? we could do a structure like above and adjust it's components and wording acordingly.

Just some ideas. I do get that whole legal :banned: stuff but some information rather than none is what i'd much appreciate. the other thing is how some other sites even exist.... well lets leave that can of worms for another day.

This really was a thought provoking Thread. Thanks for the Spark Baos and the little lightbulbs from some others. (spelling deteriorates as my bedtime gets pushed further and further back)

Goodnight

L

[T Dawg]

Technically isn't my good opinion of Canadian aquatics a vendor review? It took place.. It's posted.. Sometimes it's enforced and sometimes it's not. I think we can all agree the system needs some work.

Yes, technicaly it was a vendor review. No you did not get busted. Seems kind of like telling a cop you speed all the time but don't usualy get tickets so they should do better job?

The mods seem to try and cut some slack. I commented on a local pet store sale, and there were a few posts before a warning was posted, and even then the thread was not closed. They are trying to find a ballance, and I think for the most part it works.

Edited May 12, 2010 by T Dawg

[T Dawg]

... if you want to warn someone about a store or have concerns

I bought a bag of fish with the guy on the corner, I took out 6 and he took the rest. His got fuz and died in his QT tank. Mine went straight into the big tank and are fine. He blames the store, I blame his handling of the fish since he was ruff with them. Who is right, both, neither? At the end of the day I hear so much "I got this from that" speculation I tend to ignore it all. You never get all the facts, you get the facts people think are relevant.

Are warnings that useful? You should be taking the same precautionary steps no mater what. Does THIS need to be the sites of warnings?

[Ishkabod]

There are some warnings that would be dead useful. Lets say you were browseing the fish in your local LFS and noticed camallanus worms in a couple or even one fish. A i know first hand this disease is very very difficult to treat and spreads easier than ick. If it were to be done right then people would be able to get a good feel as to what is going around and what might be the things to watch for. Me personally i would never have noticed the worms except for the fact that my fish kept on dieing one at a time over a long period. People relatively new to the hobby would find this kind of information very useful and seasoned hobbiests can be reminded to watch out for something they don't normally do when QTing a fish or more. I don't think posting a warning every time is the answer but perhaps a running thread that is open and pinned with posting guidelines would work. I agree that the information must be shared in a legal way so guidelines must be strict and perhaps someone with allot of disease experience could monitor it for false info and to help posters complete the info needed.

L

[CursiveDuck]

There are some warnings that would be dead useful. Lets say you were browseing the fish in your local LFS and noticed camallanus worms in a couple or even one fish. A i know first hand this disease is very very difficult to treat and spreads easier than ick. If it were to be done right then people would be able to get a good feel as to what is going around and what might be the things to watch for. Me personally i would never have noticed the worms except for the fact that my fish kept on dieing one at a time over a long period. People relatively new to the hobby would find this kind of information very useful and seasoned hobbiests can be reminded to watch out for something they don't normally do when QTing a fish or more. I don't think posting a warning every time is the answer but perhaps a running thread that is open and pinned with posting guidelines would work. I agree that the information must be shared in a legal way so guidelines must be strict and perhaps someone with allot of disease experience could monitor it for false info and to help posters complete the info needed.

L

I do like that idea sorta. The only problem I could see is someone seeing a post in said thread, not reading the post fully or properly like a lot of people online do, and bam a rumor is started that said fish store in the post is infested with disease. Ex. You give us all a friendly heads up that the puffers at the LFS have ich in some of the tanks, and to be a little cautious in going forth with them. Great for me cause I read it properly, now Joe blow who reads the post who is watching tv, eatting popcorn and browsing AA haphazardly, skims the article, and registers that "all of the puffers in LFS have ich", tells his friends, warns everyone not to buy puffers from there. I can see it getting a little messy simply from carelessness of the readers, no matter how carefully moderated or written. It's inevitable people just don't take the time to always read or think properly now a day. Though on that note, it did give me quite an idea from your idea. What about a thread on identifying diseases, with pictures, and explanations of common diseases that we all could work on combining every bodies disease experience from the forum, so that we all can see what to look out for. Also another good thread to start would be how to properly go about buying fish in a safe manner, you would not believe how many people I've met while I use to work at a LFS, that are simply crazy when it comes to their purchasing of fish. Ive once had a man with a Super Red Arowana, come in and buy 50 feeders, and upon asking what he planned on doing with them, he gave me the answer "I just dump them in tank with him", no quarantining them, no nothing. A guide to safely buying a fish for all the fish newbies and experts a like! That way we won't have to worry about what's going on in the LFS's cause we all will be able to identify most of what we'd see through reading and learning, and then avoid the tanks our self. "Knowledge is Power" (That's right I quoted Captain Planet :P) This would avoid any legal implications that could arise and wouldn't infringe upon any rules already in place (Not from what I've read). And I'm sure there would be plenty of people willing to help for the better of everyone.

[Jayba]

I think we get a post up and going about LFS Diseases with pics and use decoder rings to decipher it!!!On second thought, nevermind.....

[fishclubgirl]

I totally think we should able to say whatever we want about the vendors. However, in return they can come into our home anytime and write about any diseases, deformities, etc. that they see in our tanks. There must be some much better fishkeepers than myself as I know that I've had ich, dropsy, etc. in my tanks. Obviously the fishkeepers who want vendor reviews do not have illness in their tanks. Sorry, I couldn't resist bringing this up.....